Election 2020

[gcstomp]

nots, you believe what you are saying. you are not trolling. at least i think this is the case. but this doesnt make sense that you could hold this position. many boards, for instance dont know what mega billion dollar hospital you live near, but if you look up board members, it will consist of names of well connected, and wealthy people. compare hunter to other board members, when you see hey, they all are rich or connected shmucks with ivy league educations who have known each other for decades. surprised? if you could pull up other board members from that company maybe we all could get better handle.

it is not the same as the frickin president inserting family into just for them created top positions in government, and interacting with world leaders and influencing policy that touches hundreds of millions of people. and pointing out 50k a month for hunter, yale law top grads after 20 years, wanna guess the average salary? This part is a doozy: "Trump’s kids aren’t making $50k a month." damn straight, any month they did not average millions would be a surprise to me. not in what regulars collect, as in a govt paycheck, but in what top 1% of 1%ers do, in dividends, rent, cap gains, whatever deal pays for their name, plus a dozen other shady deals that we cant know because we still cant see money trail from taxes that trump has been battling in court, etc.

This is too much, trump gave directly created out of thin air jobs for family that affects millions of people. joe biden didnt give or otherwise create a job for son, he had zero to do with hunter, who landed a job using his name that was not buy private helicopter that goes on my private yacht type job, but one that if you dug into what a yale law grad makes after a couple decades is not outside the bell curve. this is hard for me to get my head around you seeing the biden situation as something that will have people leaving biden for trump. again, not that biden will even end up as a top 3 candidate, but there are real structural differences that you have to see.

[nots]

I love how we frown on what aboutism sometimes and other times it’s ok to use it. I wonder why that is?
Anyhow.....
Hunter Biden has no experience in that industry.
Hunter Biden does not speak Ukrainian.
Hunter Biden did not attend any board meetings.
Hunter Biden was paid $50,000/month for this ‘work’.
Joe Biden oversaw Ukrainian policy in the previous administration.
Hunter Biden flew over on AF2 with Joe Biden, but apparently they never spoke about why he was on the plane.
The Ukraine has a long and well documented history of corruption.
The Obama administration had concerns about this arrangement and went to Biden’s people with those concerns.
Hunter Biden has said his involvement was ‘poor judgement’.
Without citing Trump, his tax returns, Local hospital boards (?) or the 1%ers, explain which of my statements is factually incorrect and more importantly, why you think this is an acceptable practice.
Because Trump has done bad things, I don’t think we should so casually sweep this away as if it’s nothing. If Biden showed some initial contrition or at least recognized in hindsight that the appearance was untoward (you know, like his son did), I would let it go. Instead we are going to line up and say ‘move along. Nothing to see here. Just a Yale grad putting his degree to good use’.

[Teenwolf]

What exactly does "concerned" me to you? To me, it means, this looks potentially shady. Let's look into that to see if that is the case. Concern to me means, lets see if there is wrongdoing. I already said I'd be concerned too, and I'd look into it if Biden worked under me. Is concern code to you for actual evidence of wrongdoing? Being concerned of wrongdoing is one thing, and then finding those concerns are founded in wrongdoing is another.

Once again, where is your evidence that Joe Biden did anything wrong here? My evidence of Trump doing wrong is that he hired his children. Pretty clear cut. What did Joe Biden do? Or should we just accept that his failure to stop his son from taking a job he is not qualified for is equivalent to he himself giving him a job? That is what you seem to be doing.

I think your standards of judging people based on the actions of the relatives is absurd, frankly. I judge Trump based on what Trump does. Show me something bad Biden did on this issue and I will judge him on that. Him not stopping or publicly condemning his grown son from trading on his name is totally not the same thing to me as Trump hiring his own children. I can't believe you see it as the same thing. You trying to make it the same leads me to believe you must believe Joe Biden pulled strings to get Hunter that job and winked and nodded at suggestions doing so would curry his favor as VP. I do not believe that to be the case. I see no evidence for it. If that were true, I would agree, it would be just as bad, and something Biden should absolutely be condemned for doing. It should disqualify him during the primaries.

But even if you believe they are the same, and assume the worst about Joe Biden, despite no evidence supporting that belief, Trump hiring his children is only one of a million immoral things he has done, so once again, explain how a voter primarily concerned about such matters would pick Trump over Biden?

It's not about choosing Trump over Biden based on corruption. It's about turnout. HRC's loss wasn't because people chose Trump over Clinton. He won because he thoroughly degraded and dismantled Clinton to the point that nobody gave a shit if she were elected or not. The play is the same in 2020, depress turnout.

All you have to do is depress the youth vote for Dems, enrage the base for Republicans. Simple strategy. We've seen absolutely nobody excited by Biden, especially the youth vote, which any Dem nominee will need to get the necessary turnout to win.

I highly encourage you to stop thinking about this as if it's a person holding their pencil over 2 names and deciding.

[Teenwolf]

nots, you believe what you are saying. you are not trolling. at least i think this is the case. but this doesnt make sense that you could hold this position. many boards, for instance dont know what mega billion dollar hospital you live near, but if you look up board members, it will consist of names of well connected, and wealthy people. compare hunter to other board members, when you see hey, they all are rich or connected shmucks with ivy league educations who have known each other for decades. surprised? if you could pull up other board members from that company maybe we all could get better handle.

it is not the same as the frickin president inserting family into just for them created top positions in government, and interacting with world leaders and influencing policy that touches hundreds of millions of people. and pointing out 50k a month for hunter, yale law top grads after 20 years, wanna guess the average salary? This part is a doozy: "Trump’s kids aren’t making $50k a month." damn straight, any month they did not average millions would be a surprise to me. not in what regulars collect, as in a govt paycheck, but in what top 1% of 1%ers do, in dividends, rent, cap gains, whatever deal pays for their name, plus a dozen other shady deals that we cant know because we still cant see money trail from taxes that trump has been battling in court, etc.

This is too much, trump gave directly created out of thin air jobs for family that affects millions of people. joe biden didnt give or otherwise create a job for son, he had zero to do with hunter, who landed a job using his name that was not buy private helicopter that goes on my private yacht type job, but one that if you dug into what a yale law grad makes after a couple decades is not outside the bell curve. this is hard for me to get my head around you seeing the biden situation as something that will have people leaving biden for trump. again, not that biden will even end up as a top 3 candidate, but there are real structural differences that you have to see.

You've got the same problem as Sour Masher. It's not about someone choosing Trump over Biden. It's about depressing Biden's turnout. With Warren, it would be about her lack of authenticity (Native heritage scandal), but I think Warren has a better shot of overcoming those challenges than Biden does.

If its Sanders vs Trump, Trump would have nothing to depress turnout because the youth voters don't care about socialism fearmongering.

[Teenwolf]

I love how we frown on what aboutism sometimes and other times it’s ok to use it. I wonder why that is?
Anyhow.....
Hunter Biden has no experience in that industry.
Hunter Biden does not speak Ukrainian.
Hunter Biden did not attend any board meetings.
Hunter Biden was paid $50,000/month for this ‘work’.
Joe Biden oversaw Ukrainian policy in the previous administration.
Hunter Biden flew over on AF2 with Joe Biden, but apparently they never spoke about why he was on the plane.
The Ukraine has a long and well documented history of corruption.
The Obama administration had concerns about this arrangement and went to Biden’s people with those concerns.
Hunter Biden has said his involvement was ‘poor judgement’.
Without citing Trump, his tax returns, Local hospital boards (?) or the 1%ers, explain which of my statements is factually incorrect and more importantly, why you think this is an acceptable practice.
Because Trump has done bad things, I don’t think we should so casually sweep this away as if it’s nothing. If Biden showed some initial contrition or at least recognized in hindsight that the appearance was untoward (you know, like his son did), I would let it go. Instead we are going to line up and say ‘move along. Nothing to see here. Just a Yale grad putting his degree to good use’.

Everything you write is true.

We don't know exactly how much Hunter Biden was paid by Burisma. $50K/mth hasn't been confirmed, nor the total amount paid.

We do have some details about other Burisma board members. I've heard that some of the biggest names in the energy sector also appeared on the board, or did consultant work for them, receiving much smaller sums of money for their expertise than Biden did for his name. It all looks incredibly corrupt, and that's because it is.

[nots]

Lost in all the hoopla:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-mark-sanford/former-republican-congressman-mark-sanford-drops-bid-to-challenge-trump-idUSKBN1XM2A1

Fare thee well, Mark.

[gcstomp]

nots we have disagreement, i find it hard to wrap my head around how you could hold these views that seem like so much nonsense but thats on me. if joe biden son had been locked up as a killer who broke someones neck at a bar fight a few years back, imo it still would have zero to do with Joe Biden himself, and should not turn a possible biden voter to a trump voter. if i need to "Without citing Trump, his tax returns, Local hospital boards (?) or the 1%ers" in other words, you want to ignore everything i thought was relevant to have context and focus on something you decided was a big deal. yeah this is better to chalk up to disagreement and move on.

daily, trump is blowing up trust in u.s. and in destroying norms, shattering agreements with allies, and pursuing a white nationalist and putin friendly agenda. this one with stephen miller from yesterday has had weird defense in wh. also silence (equals complicity) from repub in congress from what i can tell. the new one with trump and demanding south korea pay some 400% or 500% more for the defense agreement in place, when historically that has been between 5% and 8% more per year and seems like a push to tell s korea u.s. are not partners but mercenaries. i mean we know s korea isnt going to just write a check with a lot of extra zeroes on it that they cant afford, so this is just a round about way to blow that agreement up.

[Teenwolf]

I side with nots.

Whatever you think of Trump's corruption, or Jared and Ivanka making $93 Mil in 2018, or whatever... I probably agree. Trump is a corrupt piece of shit.

But that does nothing to address Hunter Biden. Democrats could have chosen to say Biden's board seat was wrong, but instead they lose public trust by defending corruption so long as it's from their team.

[revo]

Trump’s kids aren’t making $50k a month.
They also aren’t anymore unqualified for their jobs than a guy who doesn’t speak Ukrainian working in an industry he knows nothing about. He too would be ‘1000000%’ not qualified. So if it was a big deal when Trump did it (spoiler alert:it certainly was in the bar), it ought to be a big deal now.
Let’s flip the narrative:what possible reason would that company have to hire an unqualified guy other than to curry favor with the VP? Or to create the appearance of legitimacy?

I'm sure they're making FAR more than $50k a month.



More good news for the good guys. PA poll shows the Top 3 well ahead of Trump:

Pennsylvania: Trump vs. Biden	Morning Call	Biden 52, Trump 43	[B]Biden +9[/B]
Pennsylvania: Trump vs. Warren	Morning Call	Warren 50, Trump 45	Warren +5
Pennsylvania: Trump vs. Sanders	Morning Call	Sanders 50, Trump 45	Sanders +5

[nots]

I'm sure they're making FAR more than $50k a month.



More good news for the good guys. PA poll shows the Top 3 well ahead of Trump:

Pennsylvania: Trump vs. Biden	Morning Call	Biden 52, Trump 43	[B]Biden +9[/B]
Pennsylvania: Trump vs. Warren	Morning Call	Warren 50, Trump 45	Warren +5
Pennsylvania: Trump vs. Sanders	Morning Call	Sanders 50, Trump 45	Sanders +5

Not in their jobs as members of the Trump administration they aren't

[gcstomp]

i hate that i am letting myself get dragged back, but you keep saying stuff that is so demanding response. If Ivanka has agreements, license deals fast tracked in china other countries that made her millions past year, it was because she is in her illegally created position. and that happened. Jared had his tens of millions in debt for re deals to various banks erased last year because of his illegally created placement in wh, as happened, you dont see that as relevant?

yes if you look at chicklets of govt paychecks then all good, that is not where the money was made, the couple made some 135 mill last year plus made deals in terms of favorable loan forgiveness, fast tracked license agreements, etc that were worth even more. I assume you are just reading this as blah, blah, no quid pro quo or whatever chant and not seeing the point, their positions were significant.

[DMT]

No, nots and TW just have more fun trolling Democrats. It's irrelevant what Trump has done.

[nots]

No, nots and TW just have more fun trolling Democrats. It's irrelevant what Trump has done.

Yep, me, TW, some Obama Administration officials etc all just trolling. Derp
I mean Hunter Biden said it was a bad look but what would he know

[Sour Masher]

I love how we frown on what aboutism sometimes and other times it’s ok to use it. I wonder why that is?
Anyhow.....
Hunter Biden has no experience in that industry.
Hunter Biden does not speak Ukrainian.
Hunter Biden did not attend any board meetings.
Hunter Biden was paid $50,000/month for this ‘work’.
Joe Biden oversaw Ukrainian policy in the previous administration.
Hunter Biden flew over on AF2 with Joe Biden, but apparently they never spoke about why he was on the plane.
The Ukraine has a long and well documented history of corruption.
The Obama administration had concerns about this arrangement and went to Biden’s people with those concerns.
Hunter Biden has said his involvement was ‘poor judgement’.
Without citing Trump, his tax returns, Local hospital boards (?) or the 1%ers, explain which of my statements is factually incorrect and more importantly, why you think this is an acceptable practice.
Because Trump has done bad things, I don’t think we should so casually sweep this away as if it’s nothing. If Biden showed some initial contrition or at least recognized in hindsight that the appearance was untoward (you know, like his son did), I would let it go. Instead we are going to line up and say ‘move along. Nothing to see here. Just a Yale grad putting his degree to good use’.

I am not engaging in whataboutism. I am not defending Joe Biden by saying Trump did the same thing. I am saying the cases are different. I guess it comes down to my willingness to give Joe Biden some benefit of doubt because of his decades of service withoit incedents of corruption. It is not about him being a democrat. It is about his long track record and the fact that his son is a different person than he is. Once again, if Joe Biden got him that job or led Busra on in any way, that is obviously wrong and Joe Biden should be disqualified from office for it. You still have not presented any evidence that was the case, and my overall opinion of Joe Biden influences my assumptions of what he did or not do in the absence of evidence.

As far as Biden publicly condemning his surving son, I give a pass on a father having blinders for his son or not wanting to publicly shame him, just as I do not blame Trump's children for not calling their father out, even if they disagree with him.

[revo]

i hate that i am letting myself get dragged back, but you keep saying stuff that is so demanding response. If Ivanka has agreements, license deals fast tracked in china other countries that made her millions past year, it was because she is in her illegally created position. and that happened. Jared had his tens of millions in debt for re deals to various banks erased last year because of his illegally created placement in wh, as happened, you dont see that as relevant?

yes if you look at chicklets of govt paychecks then all good, that is not where the money was made, the couple made some 135 mill last year plus made deals in terms of favorable loan forgiveness, fast tracked license agreements, etc that were worth even more. I assume you are just reading this as blah, blah, no quid pro quo or whatever chant and not seeing the point, their positions were significant.

Totally agree, strange that he’s being obtuse about that.