Election 2020

[Teenwolf]

I've seen a few good videos debating the practicality of applying union rules to something as chaotic as Presidential campaigns. Here's one from The Hill. It's a quickie, like 1 minute at the start.

[nots]

I've seen a few good videos debating the practicality of applying union rules to something as chaotic as Presidential campaigns. Here's one from The Hill. It's a quickie, like 1 minute at the start.

So, I now have to pay my 18 year old waitresses $15/hr (plus tips), but because Presidential campaigns are ‘chaotic’, he doesn’t. LOL. Guy who brags about his huge fundraising numbers can’t pay for OT or hire more staff, but make sure my 10th grade Toast boy is getting his fair share.

[Teenwolf]

So, I now have to pay my 18 year old waitresses $15/hr (plus tips), but because Presidential campaigns are ‘chaotic’, he doesn’t. LOL. Guy who brags about his huge fundraising numbers can’t pay for OT or hire more staff, but make sure my 10th grade Toast boy is getting his fair share.

He's paying over $15/hr for a full-time position. Do you think if people desire to work 90 hours a week for his campaign, they should be paid what? $80K? Because they chose to work the overtime?

A $15/hr full-time job is considered a living wage. If folks need to work 60+ hrs a week to make more money, it's the discretion of Sanders' campaign staff if he thinks those people should be putting in overtime, or limiting hours to avoid union disputes. But he isn't cutting hours to less than full-time.

I wish I could find the more detailed video clip I watched. It mentioned that Faiz Shakir (campaign chair) had offered an increase from $36K to $42K, plus extra guaranteed work hours and other benefits, but I also heard that Shakir pulled that offer back saying they missed the boat, or something.

In any case, its internal politics that shouldn't have been made public, but i don't see where Bernie is personally to blame. Seems like Faiz Shakir wasn't able to resolve the contract squabble. I do agree that his campaign has the massive stockpile of cash that probably would have been best spent on these unhappy workers. Although now that they've compromised his campaign, they certainly don't deserve to be rewarded for their public airing of greivances. Glad others will get the opportunity instead of the whiners. Damn protest culture, biting Bernie in the ass.

[GwynnInTheHall]

So, I now have to pay my 18 year old waitresses $15/hr (plus tips), but because Presidential campaigns are ‘chaotic’, he doesn’t. LOL. Guy who brags about his huge fundraising numbers can’t pay for OT or hire more staff, but make sure my 10th grade Toast boy is getting his fair share.

Nope he should walk the walk if he's going to talk the talk.

I for one Bernie boi, am disappointed in what is going on and the rationalization behind it.

If he fixes it, he's still got my vote--If not--I'll move on to someone who's what they say they are.

[onejayhawk]

Nope he should walk the walk if he's going to talk the talk.

I for one Bernie boi, am disappointed in what is going on and the rationalization behind it.

If he fixes it, he's still got my vote--If not--I'll move on to someone who's what they say they are.

He's going to run into the same problem everyone does with the $15 minimum--it's too high for entry level work.

J

[Sour Masher]

He's going to run into the same problem everyone does with the $15 minimum--it's too high for entry level work.

J

I do not think that is universally true. However, I have always thought it overly simplistic to fight for the same minimum wage based in the idea of a living wage and not recognize how different it would be to live off of that wage in San Fran vs small town Kentucky. It is vastly different place to place. If there was a way to calculate a baseline full time pay amount by location to establish a min wage, I would be for that. Because in some places, $15 is not enough. In others, I do agree it is a bit high for some entry level jobs. If course, this thing is dragging on so long, by the time a federal minimum wage gets to $15, inflation will have caught up to it not being too high for anywhere.

[onejayhawk]

I do not think that is universally true. However, I have always thought it overly simplistic to fight for the same minimum wage based in the idea of a living wage and not recognize how different it would be to live off of that wage in San Fran vs small town Kentucky. It is vastly different place to place. If there was a way to calculate a baseline full time pay amount by location to establish a min wage, I would be for that. Because in some places, $15 is not enough. In others, I do agree it is a bit high for some entry level jobs. If course, this thing is dragging on so long, by the time a federal minimum wage gets to $15, inflation will have caught up to it not being too high for anywhere.

It was in Seattle, where they had the first big test. Minimum wage was always a simplistic solution to a complex issue, so this is no different. The bottom line is that untrained and/or inexperienced labor is not worth $15/hr in most of the country.

J

[Sour Masher]

It was in Seattle, where they had the first big test. Minimum wage was always a simplistic solution to a complex issue, so this is no different. The bottom line is that untrained and/or inexperienced labor is not worth $15/hr in most of the country.

J

Most by population or land mass? I agree with the latter. Not sure on the former. In any event, while all this debate has dragged on and on we still haven't had any kind of minimum age raise since 2009. Meanwhile, inflation keeps marching along, although not at a very high pace. Do you agree that it should be raised from its current $7.25? Based on inflation alone, it should be up to around $9 just to maintain the same level it had 10 years ago. And since the economy is booming and executive pay rates keep skyrocketing, I assume you agree everyone should benefit some from continued economic growth, and at the very least keep up with inflation. Would you support a federal minimum wage of $10 an hour? 12? Or do you think there shouldn't be one at all?

BTW, NY has been raising it up to $15 over the last couple of years. It will get there soon, in stages. It hasn't caused too many issues so far.

[Teenwolf]

[Fresno Bob]

I do not think that is universally true. However, I have always thought it overly simplistic to fight for the same minimum wage based in the idea of a living wage and not recognize how different it would be to live off of that wage in San Fran vs small town Kentucky. It is vastly different place to place. If there was a way to calculate a baseline full time pay amount by location to establish a min wage, I would be for that. Because in some places, $15 is not enough. In others, I do agree it is a bit high for some entry level jobs. If course, this thing is dragging on so long, by the time a federal minimum wage gets to $15, inflation will have caught up to it not being too high for anywhere.

$15 isn't a living wage in San Francisco by a long shot

[Teenwolf]

Interesting article from The Daily Beast from 2 weeks ago, titled Warren, Biden Campaigns Appear to Find Loophole Around Paid Internships. I tried cutting bits out, but it's still quite long... worth the read anyway.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/elizab...ips?ref=scroll

Unpaid interns are practically non-existent among Democratic presidential campaigns in 2019. But some top-tier candidates appear to be finding a creative way to tap unpaid talent: offering vague “fellowship” opportunities as volunteer positions.

...

For Biden’s campaign, the “Team Joe Organizing Fellowship” consists of an eight-week program that includes weekly online trainings in grassroots and digital organizing, according to the listing, which closed this week. Unlike the internship program, which is paid $15 per hour, the fellowship program makes no mention of wages, academic credit, or time commitments.

Warren’s campaign features one joint application with three options: paid internship, volunteer fellowship, or volunteer fellowship for academic credit. Applicants are allowed to select more than one when applying.

Warren’s deputy communications director Chris Hayden told The Daily Beast their internship program “offers a limited number of paid, full-time campaign experiences on a competitive basis” and that “interns commit to working 30 hours a week, and have access to paid health insurance in addition to their weekly salary.”

“The campaign also offers a volunteer fellowship program, which provides similar training and work experiences with a smaller time commitment,” Hayden added. “Many of our campaign fellows receive stipends from educational institutions or other third-parties, and everyone in our intern and fellowship programs has access to cost-free supporter housing while they’re working in-state.”

Still, Guillermo Creamer, co-founder of the non-profit group Pay Our Interns, said there’s a “gray area” that emerges from having both paid and unpaid options, creating a “fine line” between the roles.

“It is interesting that some campaigns can still think about having both,” Creamer said. “The question now is: is fellowship the scapegoat for not paying individuals?”

Multiple activists who spoke to The Daily Beast declined to call out individual campaigns, saying they’re generally pleased with the progress this cycle on the paid internship front, what some see as the first hurdle to overcome. But the separate volunteer fellowship option has led several activists to question the program’s cost-benefit analysis.

“What’s actually the difference?” Creamer said when asked about paid internships versus unpaid fellowships. “Campaigns have to be the ones who identify that.”

Coming off the heels of a strong second quarter of fundraising, Biden and Warren each crystallized their spots in the top of the Democratic pack both in polls and in money raised. Biden brought in $21.5 million, while Warren reported $19.1 million. The large sums are even stronger reasons to pay fellows for work, rather than doling out fancy titles in exchange, some activists pointed out.

“At Biden for President, interns are employees who are paid by the hour (capped at 30 hours a week),” a campaign spokesperson wrote in an email. “Whereas fellows are part of an educational experience which we hope will equip them to be effective organizers in the future, and are not employees of the campaign.”

“Bosses have been coming up with reasons and excuses and caveats for not paying people since the dawn of time,” Hagerty said, without commenting on any campaign specifically. “This is another version that fits into a middle-class narrative of prestige.”

In a field of nearly two dozen contenders, other candidates offer several different fellowship models. Sens. Kamala Harris (D-CA), Amy Klobuchar (D-MN), and former Texas Rep. Beto O’Rourke (D-TX) offer paid fellowships, while Sen. Cory Booker (D-NJ) requires unpaid fellows to receive academic credit in order to participate in the program. The majority of other candidates offer paid internships.

While some activists view the practice as a delicate balance between opening a door to those who seek the experience and a loophole for campaigns to use free labor, not everyone agrees the practice is problematic.

“There’s utilitarian reasons for campaigns and there’s utilitarian reasons for the workforce,” Janice Fine, an assistant professor of labor studies and employment relations at Rutgers University, said. For some, fellowships can be a vital way to gain experience with a specific candidate or area of expertise, without having to commit to a set number of hours or responsibilities, she added.

“A lot of these jobs are just for the experience,” Alan Seals, a labor economist and professor of economics at Auburn University, agreed. “The worst thing [campaigns] can do is say ‘no they’re all employees now and you’ve got to pay them minimum wage.’ It would be an absolute disaster.”

But that argument is what some activists say is part of the problem, and that there needs to be a clear pay-for-work metric that mirrors the fair wage platforms campaigns are pushing on the trail.

“It smacks of hypocrisy,” Hagerty said. “No candidate wants to be a hypocrite.”

A number of takeaways. Interesting conclusion, you cannot pay every volunteer and give them a job. Bernie alread has over 1 million volunteers, so I'm sure his campaign is filtering them into paid and unpaid roles as well. Seems like a bit of a non-scandal, but the article provided a ton of insight into campaign staffing issues. Warren and Biden only offer their paid positions a maximum of 30 hours a week! Hard to make a living on that.

[Teenwolf]

Tulsi Gabbard has been doing some odd things. She defended Joe Biden against Kamala Harris' school bussing attack. I thought this was a bad play, and ignored important historical context of Biden's history, and it knocked her down in my estimation.

Gabbard has now gone even further, saying that Kamala Harris is unqualified for the role of commander in chief. I don't entirely disagree, and she needed to make headlines somehow. I just hate that it comes across as a bit of a deflection for Biden.

GABBARD: I think one of the things I'm most concerned with is Kamala Harris is not qualified to serve as commander in chief, and I can say this from a personal perspective as a soldier. She's got no background or experience in foreign policy and she lacks the temperament that is necessary for a commander in chief.

"I've seen the cost of war firsthand. I've experienced the consequences of what happens when we have presidents, as we have from both political parties in the White House, who lack experience, who lack that foreign policy understanding, who therefore fall under the influence of the foreign policy establishment, the military-industrial complex. This is what's so dangerous. This is what we've seen occurring over time.

[revo]

Biden tops Trump by 8% in a Quinnipiac poll for Ohio, which Trump won by 8% in 2016. All others are losing or tied, so the difference is stark.

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/07/25/biden-trump-2020-election-ohio-poll-1433607

[B-Fly]

Biden's polling rebound combined with Trump's polling improvements have me very conflicted. Biden is one of my least favorite candidates in the Democratic field, but I do think that defeating Trump is the number one most important thing. And I think we need to assume that to defeat Trump we need to win three of the following four states: PA, MI, WI, FL. If all of the available data shows us that Biden can defeat Trump in those states and the other candidates may not be able to do so, that's a super strong "pro" in the Biden column. While I'd much prefer Warren to Biden, the preference for any Democrat versus Trump is an even wider gap for me.

Edit to add: I don't view Ohio as a tipping point state anymore for the Dems. If we can win Ohio, we've almost assuredly already won without Ohio, IMO. But it helps to force Trump to expend time and money defending Ohio.

[frae]

Biden's polling rebound combined with Trump's polling improvements have me very conflicted. Biden is one of my least favorite candidates in the Democratic field, but I do think that defeating Trump is the number one most important thing. And I think we need to assume that to defeat Trump we need to win three of the following four states: PA, MI, WI, FL. If all of the available data shows us that Biden can defeat Trump in those states and the other candidates may not be able to do so, that's a super strong "pro" in the Biden column. While I'd much prefer Warren to Biden, the preference for any Democrat versus Trump is an even wider gap for me.

Yeah, it is a tough spot. Biden is not who I want, but I want to win. We (most primary voters) may not get to make that choice in the end as the early 1/3 of the primary season will determine a lot. By the time I vote it may not matter. I love Warren's policies, but her name recognition and what the midwest generally thinks of her doesn't make me feel like there is a ton of room for growth. I'd probably still pick Harris today because you can't tie socialist to her, she would likely bring the black vote back out at a high rate if she is the nominee (i know polls now will show Biden ahead, but Clinton was ahead of Obama until Obama showed he could win), and she still doesn't have huge name recognition in the midwest so her favorable's seem less locked in.

All that said as B-Fly said the goal is to beat Trump and as polling data gets less noisy and we get closer to the primary if Biden is still beating Trump handily in the midwest I'll be all in if Biden is the nominee.