Election 2020

[frae]

Sanders problems summed up. He already has all the name recognition and not a lot of avenues to going up. He does however continue to do a good job of raising money.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/02/politics/bernie-sanders-polls/index.html

[Kevin Seitzer]

obviously there are a lot of Christian voters who support strong/strict immigration policies and think that a strong policy deterrence - "don't even try to come here illegally" - is the most "Christian" way to minimize the suffering from border crossings and detentions.

You're not wrong in your assessment of the voting public, but I find that line of thinking, that theology, and that reading of the Christian scriptures so abhorrent and so counter to what Jesus taught and lived. The parable of the Good Samaritan ought to make it pretty clear.

What is the greatest command? Love the Lord your God with all your heart. The second is like it, love your neighbor as yourself. Who is my neighbor? A Jew is beaten by robbers and left for dead. A priest and a Levite walk past and ignore him. The Samaritan helps him. Who was a neighbor to the one in need? The one who had mercy. Go and do likewise.

He made it as clear as he possibly could that race/religion/national origin were not criteria for refusing to help people in need. Christians who refuse the clear command of their Lord on this point should be ashamed and repent.

[Ken]

You're not wrong in your assessment of the voting public, but I find that line of thinking, that theology, and that reading of the Christian scriptures so abhorrent and so counter to what Jesus taught and lived.

Completely agree and I'll take it a step further. It's obviously terrible theology.

Before we trash this potential straw man though, where's the suggestion that it even exists? Showing my ignorance here, but where's the "Christian" basis for border control documented, I didn't know that was a thing - can someone point me to where that's referenced as a real stance?

[Sour Masher]

Completely agree and I'll take it a step further. It's obviously terrible theology.

Before we trash this potential straw man though, where's the suggestion that it even exists? Showing my ignorance here, but where's the "Christian" basis for border control documented, I didn't know that was a thing - can someone point me to where that's referenced as a real stance?

There are polls that suggest evangelical support for border control is strong, but I'm not sure if you are asking for a Christian basis in terms of the self-identified Christians who support such things in the US or the doctrine. Also noteworthy is that I have seen the support for strong borders coupled with solid support for a path to citizenship, so that seems a point where movement could be made, if our POTUS would allow it. I suspect when people think of the real face of un-Christ-like behavior on this issue, though, they see someone like Jerry Falwell Jr.

[Kevin Seitzer]

Completely agree and I'll take it a step further. It's obviously terrible theology.

Before we trash this potential straw man though, where's the suggestion that it even exists? Showing my ignorance here, but where's the "Christian" basis for border control documented, I didn't know that was a thing - can someone point me to where that's referenced as a real stance?

If the majority of white evangelical Christians in this country are in favor of welcoming and assisting immigrants, refugees, and asylum seekers, and taking political action in keeping with that position, that would be great news. Everything I see says the complete opposite, though. White evangelical support for Trump continues to be very high, and one of Trump's primary issues is keeping immigrants, refugees, and asylum seekers out of the country, and going to great lengths to treat them poorly and attack them rhetorically. I don't really understand which of those points you are disputing or questioning.

I don't believe there is a Christian basis for border control. Would that other Christians in this country, particularly the white evangelical Christians who currently hold a great deal of political power by having latched onto Trump, agreed with me on that.

[Kevin Seitzer]

This is from a WaPo article from January. Probably there are better and/or more recent sources on this. Again, I seriously would love to be proved wrong about this. It would give me some hope for our country that I don't currently have.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/01/02/walls-around-trump-are-crumbling-evangelicals-may-be-his-last-resort/

White evangelical Christian support for Trump may perhaps prove his strongest bedrock, an important key to holding his base. Ron Brownstein recently analyzed the 2018 election results and found that key elements of his blue-collar white base moved away from Republicans — with the exception of white evangelicals, who instead showed a “hardening loyalty” to the Trump-era GOP. There appears to be a schism on the wall in particular, with some groups of non-evangelical whites opposing it while evangelical whites continue to overwhelmingly support it.

Why is the wall so important to this segment of Trump’s base in particular? Robert Jones, the head of PRRI, told me that the wall powerfully symbolizes the deeper reasons they supported Trump in the first place.

“For white evangelicals who see the sun setting on white Christian dominance in the country, the wall is a powerful metaphor,” said Jones, who has spent many years analyzing the attitudes of religious voters, and published the book “The End of White Christian America.”

Jones added that this metaphor embodies a white evangelical view of the world “as a dangerous battleground” made up of “chosen insiders and threatening outsiders,” as well as an “embattled minority trope that is rooted deep within southern culture,” such as the “Lost Cause theology following the Civil War,” and in “evangelical culture generally.”

[Judge Jude]

He made it as clear as he possibly could that race/religion/national origin were not criteria for refusing to help people in need. Christians who refuse the clear command of their Lord on this point should be ashamed and repent.

so much for "judge not, lest ye be judged" and "let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

directing which fellow Christians must repent? I only went to Catholic school for 12 years, but I must have missed a class.

[The Feral Slasher]

so much for "judge not, lest ye be judged" and "let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

directing which fellow Christians must repent? I only went to Catholic school for 12 years, but I must have missed a class.

So do you disagree with the quote you responded to ?

"He made it as clear as he possibly could that race/religion/national origin were not criteria for refusing to help people in need. Christians who refuse the clear command of their Lord on this point should be ashamed and repent."

[Judge Jude]

I'm pretty sure that telling other people that they should repent crosses a line in Christianity.

it is a LOT different than criticizing a political position on an issue.
the first sentence is a reasonable observation.
the second sentence is.... hubris?

[The Feral Slasher]

I'm pretty sure that telling other people that they should repent crosses a line in Christianity.

Pretty sure it doesnt, but whatever. If asking Christians to follow Christ"s teachings bothers you i am not sure what to say

[Judge Jude]

if a conservative tells pro-choice Christians to repent, would that bother you?

[The Feral Slasher]

if a conservative tells pro-choice Christians to repent, would that bother you?

not at all, I believe they consider the unborn child to be a human soul and are trying to protect it. But, back to the subject we were discussing, not sure why it apparently bothers you when Kevin Seitzer expects Christians to show kindness and help others who are in need, regardless of their race, ethnicity, etc. It seems to be this would be pretty basic to Christianity. I certainly hope my kids 12 plus years in Catholic school taught them that much at least.

[Judge Jude]

"not sure why it apparently bothers you when Kevin Seitzer expects Christians to show kindness and help others who are in need, regardless of their race, ethnicity, etc. "

you're not reading very closely (see above). feel free to address the words "Christians who refuse the clear command of their Lord on this point should be ashamed and repent."

otherwise, we are just talking in circles.

either it's fair game to expect other Christians to bow down to anyone's definition of a need for repentance, or it isn't.

I'm not comfortable asserting my pride over those who have different viewpoints.

[The Feral Slasher]

"not sure why it apparently bothers you when Kevin Seitzer expects Christians to show kindness and help others who are in need, regardless of their race, ethnicity, etc. "

you're not reading very closely (see above). feel free to address the words "Christians who refuse the clear command of their Lord on this point should be ashamed and repent."

otherwise, we are just talking in circles.

either it's fair game to expect other Christians to bow down to anyone's definition of a need for repentance, or it isn't.

I'm not comfortable asserting my pride over those who have different viewpoints.

sure, whatever. If you want to try to twist the meaning of his words go ahead. I'm comfortable focusing on the actual message " He made it as clear as he possibly could that race/religion/national origin were not criteria for refusing to help people in need" and you can focus on what a terrible judgemental (ha ha) person he is.

[Ken]

I don't really understand which of those points you are disputing or questioning.

My tone was poor in my previous post, I was agreeing with your point I was just interested in seeing some background, which you provided in the WaPo article.

I wonder if there's cognitive dissonance going on with those evangelical Trump supporters. Like you, I can't make any sense of it, so I have to question whether they subconsciously justify a separation between their politics from their religion.