#___ingwhileblack

[Teenwolf]

Allow me to quote Fresno Bob as to what I expect to get from this site. You cretins never fail to deliver:

"in many cases I am horrified and disappointed in what I see a significant portion of RJers posting. I get that I live in a liberal, educated bubble, but man, RJ often is my solo window to the dark side of selfishness that just disgusts me in many ways."

[Ken]

Allow me to quote Fresno Bob as to what I expect to get from this site. You cretins never fail to deliver:

"in many cases I am horrified and disappointed in what I see a significant portion of RJers posting. I get that I live in a liberal, educated bubble, but man, RJ often is my solo window to the dark side of selfishness that just disgusts me in many ways."

Fresno Bob is right, the fact that we have prejudiced bigots posting on this forum who think police are just "paranoid" while they get shot in the line of duty, is horrific.

(Oh and don't worry, if that's too aggressive, it's not me, it's just you being too sensitive)

[Teenwolf]

Fresno Bob is right, the fact that we have prejucided bigots posting on this forum who think police are just "paranoid" while they get shot in the line of duty, is horrific.

Wow, your grandstanding about my lack of respect for the police is truly pathetic.

Fuck the police. Why do you care?

[Ken]

Wow, your grandstanding about my lack of respect for the police is truly pathetic.

Fuck the police. Why do you care?

Gross. That's repulsive. You want to be bigoted like that? In a thread about racism?

Disgusting.

[B-Fly]

Having served as a first responder and on the NYC Civilian Complaint Review Board, I am well aware of the range of police officer attitudes about race, courtesy, professionalism and respect. The range is unfortunate. Police forces in the United States, for the most part, do not do remotely enough to identify and screen out prospective cops for racist attitudes and "respect my authoritay"/hair trigger temperament. Nor do they use reward and discipline (carrots and sticks) appropriately or effectively enough to ensure that police officers with the right approach and attitude are retained and promoted while police officers with the wrong approach and attitude are met with an appropriate corrective action plan and, failing turnaround, removed from the force.

None of that is intended to suggest that there aren't a lot of really good, civic minded, and even anti-racist police officers and police department leaders. There are. But they're too often undermined by the blue wall of silence and the accompanying mental posture of police as soldiers under siege fighting an inexhaustible and subhuman enemy force that could strike at any time.

I get fear and I get teamwork and having each other's backs, but ultimately our nation needs heavy policing reform led by strong moral leaders and supported by effective recruitment, retention, professional development (training and promotion), continuous performance evaluation, and progressive discipline.

[Mithrandir]

Gross. That's repulsive. You want to be bigoted like that? In a thread about racism?

Disgusting.

Hating the police isn't really bigoted, is it?

And the police have WAY to much power in this country. WAY too much.

[Mithrandir]

Having served as a first responder and on the NYC Civilian Complaint Review Board, I am well aware of the range of police officer attitudes about race, courtesy, professionalism and respect. The range is unfortunate. Police forces in the United States, for the most part, do not do remotely enough to identify and screen out prospective cops for racist attitudes and "respect my authoritay"/hair trigger temperament. Nor do they use reward and discipline (carrots and sticks) appropriately or effectively enough to ensure that police officers with the right approach and attitude are retained and promoted while police officers with the wrong approach and attitude are met with an appropriate corrective action plan and, failing turnaround, removed from the force.

None of that is intended to suggest that there aren't a lot of really good, civic minded, and even anti-racist police officers and police department leaders. There are. But they're too often undermined by the blue wall of silence and the accompanying mental posture of police as soldiers under siege fighting an inexhaustible and subhuman enemy force that could strike at any time.

I get fear and I get teamwork and having each other's backs, but ultimately our nation needs heavy policing reform led by strong moral leaders and supported by effective recruitment, retention, professional development (training and promotion), continuous performance evaluation, and progressive discipline.

Great freaking post!

[baldgriff]

Fuck the police. Why do you care?

Who you gonna call?? Ghostbusters??

[DMT]

Having served as a first responder and on the NYC Civilian Complaint Review Board, I am well aware of the range of police officer attitudes about race, courtesy, professionalism and respect. The range is unfortunate. Police forces in the United States, for the most part, do not do remotely enough to identify and screen out prospective cops for racist attitudes and "respect my authoritay"/hair trigger temperament. Nor do they use reward and discipline (carrots and sticks) appropriately or effectively enough to ensure that police officers with the right approach and attitude are retained and promoted while police officers with the wrong approach and attitude are met with an appropriate corrective action plan and, failing turnaround, removed from the force.

None of that is intended to suggest that there aren't a lot of really good, civic minded, and even anti-racist police officers and police department leaders. There are. But they're too often undermined by the blue wall of silence and the accompanying mental posture of police as soldiers under siege fighting an inexhaustible and subhuman enemy force that could strike at any time.

I get fear and I get teamwork and having each other's backs, but ultimately our nation needs heavy policing reform led by strong moral leaders and supported by effective recruitment, retention, professional development (training and promotion), continuous performance evaluation, and progressive discipline.

[Gregg]

Ha ha, so funny that we're attacking each other and pissing each other off rather than working to better understand each other and our positions. Woohoo.

That was not my intent.

I do think that it is ok in the context of this thread to hold each other accountable. I hear a lot of gnashing of teeth from Teenwolf's camp. He is on the attack mode. I want to know how is he different from the rest of us. Does he have answers that we can learn from?

If I am a bigot then tell me how not to be as I really really do not want to be.

[Gregg]

Hating the police isn't really bigoted, is it?

And the police have WAY to much power in this country. WAY too much.

I think hating the actions of some is far different that hating someone or a group of people.

[Ken]

Having served as a first responder and on the NYC Civilian Complaint Review Board, I am well aware of the range of police officer attitudes about race, courtesy, professionalism and respect. The range is unfortunate. Police forces in the United States, for the most part, do not do remotely enough to identify and screen out prospective cops for racist attitudes and "respect my authoritay"/hair trigger temperament. Nor do they use reward and discipline (carrots and sticks) appropriately or effectively enough to ensure that police officers with the right approach and attitude are retained and promoted while police officers with the wrong approach and attitude are met with an appropriate corrective action plan and, failing turnaround, removed from the force.

None of that is intended to suggest that there aren't a lot of really good, civic minded, and even anti-racist police officers and police department leaders. There are. But they're too often undermined by the blue wall of silence and the accompanying mental posture of police as soldiers under siege fighting an inexhaustible and subhuman enemy force that could strike at any time.

I get fear and I get teamwork and having each other's backs, but ultimately our nation needs heavy policing reform led by strong moral leaders and supported by effective recruitment, retention, professional development (training and promotion), continuous performance evaluation, and progressive discipline.

Very well informed opinion. Hard to disagree with any of that.

Do you think that situation should be offset with a "fuck the police" rhetoric, and an accompanying disregard for their well-being, calling their fear of violent situations they encounter daily as simply "paranoia"?

[Ken]

Hating the police isn't really bigoted, is it?

"Fuck the police. Why do you care?"

Bigot - "one who regards or treats the members of a group with hatred and intolerance"

... when the shoe fits?

If he were upset at inherent problems with the system, that's one thing I could get behind, but he specifically called out their individual fear of the dangerous situations they work in as paranoia. That's attacking the individual. It's gross.

[Mithrandir]

"Fuck the police. Why do you care?"

Bigot - "one who regards or treats the members of a group with hatred and intolerance"

... when the shoe fits?

If he were upset at inherent problems with the system, that's one thing I could get behind, but he specifically called out their individual fear of the dangerous situations they work in as paranoia. That's attacking the individual. It's gross.

Ehhhh...ok i can see how it can fit that definition....

[Sour Masher]

Very well informed opinion. Hard to disagree with any of that.

Do you think that situation should be offset with a "fuck the police" rhetoric, and an accompanying disregard for their well-being, calling their fear of violent situations they encounter daily as simply "paranoia"?

Something I find interesting, which isn't a direct response to your question, but something I do find related--why do we all (and I put myself in the "all" category) seem to be drawn to responding to the most inflammatory and divisive perspectives in these threads, rather than debate with folks who have different perspectives, but who express them thoughtfully and less divisively? For instance, I posted some ideas about police training similar to what B-Fly posted, and it didn't gain any traction. But when someone, often TW (who I often agree with on content, but very often disagree with on delivery and attitude to opposing viewpoints) posts something more outrageously articulated, it gets many more responses.

I'm responding to your post to ask this, because, if I recall correctly, I think it is was you that rightly and best pointed out this phenomena--that we tend to focus on the extremes of our disagreement in these "hot topic" threads. But I do think it would be more productive if the debates also happened more in the middle, where we share some common ground, and may be able to come to a consensus on ways to move forward. All that said, again, I do get why one would want to respond to a statement so easily identified as wrong. it is easy to win when engaging someone who is clearly wrong. But if most agree that a position is clearly wrong, what do we all gain by engaging in that debate? And again, I'm as guilty of this as anyone.

For the record, I agree with B-Fly's post about the range of personalities in our law enforcement, the need for better vetting and training. And I also agree that in many places and in many ways, police have an incredibly stressful and dangerous job, and the dangers they face cannot be ignored in these conversations. In fact, it is because of those stresses and dangers that I think we need to find solutions to ensure the best, most capable, and more fair people are in these positions, and we need to provide training and oversight that both ensures their safety as they do their job, and also ensures they interact with the public in better ways that lessens the cases of discrimination, fearfulness, and abuse by authority that are obviously a problem.