#___ingwhileblack

[Teenwolf]

You can read anything you want into my statement. That doesn't change the fact that I was given the same instructions as was my son. I made no comment about anything else.

How is my statement about likelihood of outcomes "reading into your statement" in any way? What assumptions have I made?

[Ken]

How is my statement about likelihood of outcomes "reading into your statement" in any way? What assumptions have I made?

Not to speak for the guy, but you are coming across awful aggressive here - he was just implying that for him it is not that surprising/sad that someone was instructed to operate in that manner since he was as well (I was too). Your reply was not relevant to that anecdote that he provided.

[Teenwolf]

Not to speak for the guy, but you are coming across awful aggressive here - he was just implying that for him it is not that surprising/sad that someone was instructed to operate in that manner since he was as well (I was too). Your reply was not relevant to that anecdote that he provided.

Everybody here is so damn sensitive! I try to point out the differences in the white v. black driving experience, as everybody else was doing, and someone feels the need to say "this standard exists for black and white people" and its not only pointless, but it's just not true. I was never sat down and told about how I need to follow a strict set of rules when pulled over or I could be killed because I'm automatically viewed as a threat, and neither were you, or MrFurious, so I was pointing out the incomplete nature of his claim given a lack of acknowledgment about the different ways blacks and whites are treated by police.

Just bringing facts.

[Ken]

Everybody here is so damn sensitive! I try to point out the differences in the white v. black driving experience, as everybody else was doing, and someone feels the need to say "this standard exists for black and white people" and its not only pointless, but it's just not true. I was never sat down and told about how I need to follow a strict set of rules when pulled over or I could be killed because I'm automatically viewed as a threat, and neither were you, or MrFurious, so I was pointing out the incomplete nature of his claim given a lack of acknowledgment about the different ways blacks and whites are treated by police.

Just bringing facts.

Nope, you are somehow still missing it. No one is trying to diminish the fact that racism exists.

I ABSOLUTELY was taught to keep my hands on the wheel so I'm not making threatening movements. I was taught not to reach into glove compartments without telling the officer first. I was told to immediately tell any officer if I have a weapon and where it is. I follow that every time I'm pulled over (sadly for speeding that's a little too regular!) But those procedures are not just for the hell of it, it is for my safety.

You are almost the same age as I am. These items were taught by parents in the 90s, not just in the 2010s. It wasn't due to racism it was due to the fact that the police are scared out of their minds when pulling someone over on the side of the road because police get shot just giving speeding tickets (shot by people of every race).

That doesn't diminish that we have to figure out how to fix the police racism issue. But when we are making that (more than valid) argument, lets use facts that are real. The reality is that it is SOP for people getting pulled over to be calm and act in a way that makes the officer feel at least a little more at ease.

[Teenwolf]

Nope, you are somehow still missing it. No one is trying to diminish the fact that racism exists.

I ABSOLUTELY was taught to keep my hands on the wheel so I'm not making threatening movements. I was taught not to reach into glove compartments without telling the officer first. I was told to immediately tell any officer if I have a weapon and where it is. I follow that every time I'm pulled over (sadly for speeding that's a little too regular!) But those procedures are not just for the hell of it, it is for my safety.

You are almost the same age as I am. These items were taught by parents in the 90s, not just in the 2010s. It wasn't due to racism it was due to the fact that the police are scared out of their minds when pulling someone over on the side of the road because police get shot just giving speeding tickets (shot by people of every race).

That doesn't diminish that we have to figure out how to fix the police racism issue. But when we are making that (more than valid) argument, lets use facts that are real. The reality is that it is SOP for people getting pulled over to be calm and act in a way that makes the officer feel at least a little more at ease.

From your description I guess you could say the US gun epidemic is fueling paranoia. I've never been taught any SOP, though I dont dispute the usefulness of it. Much less relevant up here though, as it's never assumed folks are carrying weapons.

I guess I just dispute the purpose of claiming both sides have SOP, but I also dispute the objective reality that those conversations would be the same, as a conversation which acknowledges systemic oppression devaluing you as a person is upsetting, much more so than the same conversation for white folks. Trying to claim they're the same conversation, carrying the same weight is obscuring the truth.

Hardly worth the bandwidth expended. Let's move on.

[Ken]

From your description I guess you could say the US gun epidemic is fueling paranoia.

It's not paranoia, cops get shot in the line of duty far too often. My daugher's 1st grade teacher missed school last Friday because she was attending the funeral of a coworker of her husband, a police officer shot by a robbery suspect. That happens more than any of us would like to admit.

Labeling a cop's fear of being shot in the line of duty as "paranoia" is disgusting. I suspect that's not what you intended as that doesn't sound like something you would say.

I've never been taught any SOP, though I dont dispute the usefulness of it. Much less relevant up here though, as it's never assumed folks are carrying weapons.

Got it, your experience varies from others. It's not surprising, all of our experiences are different.

Google "what to do when you are pulled over". I clicked through 4 or 5 links and all of the results (old and new) say to keep your hands on the wheel. This isn't new. I'm sorry your parents didn't focus on that, but it's pretty common knowledge I would think.

It also doesn't say "if you are not a minority skip this step".

I guess I just dispute the purpose of claiming both sides have SOP

The problem is that you are wanting to make "sides" of this discussion and the point that is being made back to you is that there aren't always sides. We are all on the "same team" in many aspects. If you are constantly looking for sides then there will be sides in your perspective.

The aggressive urge to label people on this board as racist or imply that they are minimizing racism gets old. None of the common posters on this board are racist. We all see the underlying problem. You aren't educating anyone by jumping to point out the problems, we all get it.

I also dispute the objective reality that those conversations would be the same, as a conversation which acknowledges systemic oppression devaluing you as a person is upsetting, much more so than the same conversation for white folks. Trying to claim they're the same conversation, carrying the same weight is obscuring the truth.

I don't think Gregg's anecdote mentioned anything about systematic oppression devaluing you as a person, if it had then no one would have argued how sad that was. So this is a bit of a strawman argument, the goalposts are moving a bit.

Hardly worth the bandwidth expended. Let's move on.

Fair enough.

[Teenwolf]

It's not paranoia, cops get shot in the line of duty far too often. My daugher's 1st grade teacher missed school last Friday because she was attending the funeral of a coworker of her husband, a police officer shot by a robbery suspect. That happens more than any of us would like to admit.

Labeling a cop's fear of being shot in the line of duty as "paranoia" is disgusting. I suspect that's not what you intended as that doesn't sound like something you would say.



Got it, your experience varies from others. It's not surprising, all of our experiences are different.

Google "what to do when you are pulled over". I clicked through 4 or 5 links and all of the results (old and new) say to keep your hands on the wheel. This isn't new. I'm sorry your parents didn't focus on that, but it's pretty common knowledge I would think.

It also doesn't say "if you are not a minority skip this step".



The problem is that you are wanting to make "sides" of this discussion and the point that is being made back to you is that there aren't always sides. We are all on the "same team" in many aspects. If you are constantly looking for sides then there will be sides in your perspective.

The aggressive urge to label people on this board as racist or imply that they are minimizing racism gets old. None of the common posters on this board are racist. We all see the underlying problem. You aren't educating anyone by jumping to point out the problems, we all get it.



I don't think Gregg's anecdote mentioned anything about systematic oppression devaluing you as a person, if it had then no one would have argued how sad that was. So this is a bit of a strawman argument, the goalposts are moving a bit.




Fair enough.

"Labelling racists"... holy smokes... the sensitivity level here is an 11... if you wanted to move on, you type "fair enough" without all that other crap, but now I gotta respond. Okay.

First of all, saying "nobody here is racist" is extremely counter productive. Everybody has internal racial biases. As it's been pointed out, many minorities are themselves racially biased, as they've internalized their second class citizen status. So let's keep it real on that.

Secondly, this is the racism thread, and I think your constant need (and others) to relay the "white experience", is pointless, and disingenuous. They're not the same experience and saying so particularly in THIS THREAD, is pointless, as well as simply untrue. But no big deal, and I think I made less of one than your response. I'm happy to move on.

Third, let me be clear as to your statement about police. I completely despise police on a nearly universal basis. Partly based on being physically battered while stumbling drunk one night... anyway, again you employ an anecdote to make the point that police have a dangerous job... fine, but it's less dangerous than many, many other jobs. You think I'm "disgusting" for calling cops paranoid? I'm not even allowed to have an anti-police stance? Look up the mortality rates... it's way more likely for construction workers, farm workers, loggers, fisherman, on and on and on, all of these jobs carry much higher mortality rates. Practically every major bridge you drive on has a death toll attached to it. So yeah, they're paranoid, and I dont believe my conclusion is "disgusting". I think police brutality is disgusting, as well as the systematic protection of dirty cops... but you think me calling them paranoid is disgusting? Different priorities, I guess.

So, racism is real, but it's definitely "other people" with the problem, and police are to be respected and trusted absolutely... again, can we just disagree, and move on? I respect your respect for police, while also carrying my own biases based on personal experiences as well as statistical evidence. I hope my anti-police stance is respected, as I dont come to the conclusion lightly. Cheers.

[Gregg]

"Labelling racists"... holy smokes... the sensitivity level here is an 11... if you wanted to move on, you type "fair enough" without all that other crap, but now I gotta respond. Okay.

First of all, saying "nobody here is racist" is extremely counter productive. Everybody has internal racial biases. As it's been pointed out, many minorities are themselves racially biased, as they've internalized their second class citizen status. So let's keep it real on that.

Secondly, this is the racism thread, and I think your constant need (and others) to relay the "white experience", is pointless, and disingenuous. They're not the same experience and saying so particularly in THIS THREAD, is pointless, as well as simply untrue. But no big deal, and I think I made less of one than your response. I'm happy to move on.

Third, let me be clear as to your statement about police. I completely despise police on a nearly universal basis. Partly based on being physically battered while stumbling drunk one night... anyway, again you employ an anecdote to make the point that police have a dangerous job... fine, but it's less dangerous than many, many other jobs. You think I'm "disgusting" for calling cops paranoid? I'm not even allowed to have an anti-police stance? Look up the mortality rates... it's way more likely for construction workers, farm workers, loggers, fisherman, on and on and on, all of these jobs carry much higher mortality rates. Practically every major bridge you drive on has a death toll attached to it. So yeah, they're paranoid, and I dont believe my conclusion is "disgusting". I think police brutality is disgusting, as well as the systematic protection of dirty cops... but you think me calling them paranoid is disgusting? Different priorities, I guess.

So, racism is real, but it's definitely "other people" with the problem, and police are to be respected and trusted absolutely... again, can we just disagree, and move on? I respect your respect for police, while also carrying my own biases based on personal experiences as well as statistical evidence. I hope my anti-police stance is respected, as I dont come to the conclusion lightly. Cheers.

If I put all of your posts together I come up with that you are a middle aged privileged angry white guy who by that very definition is a racist.

You are overcompensating by yelling at other middle aged to older privileged white guys that they are racist and need to stop. And if the other middle aged to older privileged white guys are truly trying to not be racist they are failing because by your definition it is impossible.

So let's talk about your racism and what you are doing about it. Maybe you can show us the way to healing.

[Teenwolf]

If I put all of your posts together I come up with that you are a middle aged privileged angry white guy who by that very definition is a racist.

You are overcompensating by yelling at other middle aged to older privileged white guys that they are racist and need to stop. And if the other middle aged to older privileged white guys are truly trying to not be racist they are failing because by your definition it is impossible.

So let's talk about your racism and what you are doing about it. Maybe you can show us the way to healing.

If you're not willing to examine your own idiotic statements such as "you're highly probable to be beaten for being in an interracial marriage in Chicago"... why do you expect me to self assess?

I honestly give up on this thread. You're all way too sensitive.

[Ken]

"Labelling racists"... holy smokes... the sensitivity level here is an 11...

The act is tiresome. You love to criticize, but if anyone pushes back they are too sensitive. Seriously, enough with that drivel. Either have a point, and back it up, or don't.

if you wanted to move on, you type "fair enough" without all that other crap, but now I gotta respond. Okay.

Sorry but it's funny that you wanted to move on when you had the last word, but as soon as someone points out the ridiculous nature of your statement you are offended and need to continue?

First of all, saying "nobody here is racist" is extremely counter productive. Everybody has internal racial biases.

You are really quick to point out what everyone else is doing wrong, lets hear about your internal race bias since you are so adamant about it - please tell?

As it's been pointed out, many minorities are themselves racially biased, as they've internalized their second class citizen status. So let's keep it real on that.

What are you talking about? Is this just stream of consciousness? No one disputes that, so "keep it real" is an odd statement here.

Secondly, this is the racism thread, and I think your constant need (and others) to relay the "white experience", is pointless, and disingenuous.
They're not the same experience and saying so particularly in THIS THREAD, is pointless, as well as simply untrue. But no big deal, and I think I made less of one than your response. I'm happy to move on.

Again the need to take sides, constantly. If you'd like to re-read it was stated that it was the same SOP for everyone. Not "for all whites". For everyone. Why you need to point out that it is for a "white experience", I have no idea. You are obsessed with labeling white people. We're all the same buddy, there's no need to bring race into it. That's the whole point.

Third, let me be clear as to your statement about police. I completely despise police on a nearly universal basis. Partly based on being physically battered while stumbling drunk one night...

Stereotyping a whole group of people based on your experience with one (or a few), really says much more about you than it does about those people. I'm sorry for your bad experience, I really am. That doesn't mean all cops are bad, any more than a bad experience with an individual of a particular race says anything about that entire race.

anyway, again you employ an anecdote to make the point that police have a dangerous job... fine, but it's less dangerous than many, many other jobs. You think I'm "disgusting" for calling cops paranoid? I'm not even allowed to have an anti-police stance? Look up the mortality rates... it's way more likely for construction workers, farm workers, loggers, fisherman, on and on and on, all of these jobs carry much higher mortality rates.

Whataboutism at its finest. Police don't have dangerous jobs because other people die too. Brilliant response.

Practically every major bridge you drive on has a death toll attached to it. So yeah, they're paranoid, and I dont believe my conclusion is "disgusting".

Yes. It is disgusting. Repulsive in fact.

I think police brutality is disgusting, as well as the systematic protection of dirty cops...

You love to throw up those straw men don't you? I also think police brutality and dirty cops are absolutely disgusting. That doesn't mean I choose to label the whole based on the few.

but you think me calling them paranoid is disgusting?

Yes, when people are getting shot, telling them they are paranoid for being cautious is disgusting.

It would be equally as disgusting if you said POC were just "paranoid" about getting shot by police and their fear was unfounded.

That kind of statement is just gross.

Different priorities, I guess.

True, being prejudiced against anyone is pretty low on my priority list. I don't limit it to race.

So, racism is real, but it's definitely "other people" with the problem

You bash that straw man hard. Smash it down!

and police are to be respected and trusted absolutely...

Who said absolutely? Why do you enjoy these straw men arguments so much?

again, can we just disagree, and move on?

We definitely disagree.

I respect your respect for police, while also carrying my own biases based on personal experiences as well as statistical evidence. I hope my anti-police stance is respected, as I dont come to the conclusion lightly. Cheers.

And I have a lot of respect for your overall stance here, it's just the way you go about trying to pick holes in everyone in the thread that gets really tiresome. We should be free to talk about our experience without complaint of too much of the "white experience". The nagging and complaining just because of our race is not helpful. Again, we're all on the same "side" here. There's no need to pick a fight.

[Ken]

I honestly give up on this thread.

Thank God. Not a moment too soon.

[Gregg]

If you're not willing to examine your own idiotic statements such as "you're highly probable to be beaten for being in an interracial marriage in Chicago"... why do you expect me to self assess?

I honestly give up on this thread. You're all way too sensitive.

Who is sensitive now?

How is my statement different than your all police are bad because you gotten beaten up?

Tell you what, I will retract my statement (as it was a bit strong) and amend it to my fear for my friends and family that they could be beaten for their choices.

You now have a chance to teach on the correct way to get rid of bigotry that lingers in all of us.

[Ken]

Who is sensitive now?

Now THAT is funny. You are so sensitive that he had to run away from the thread.

[Bernie Brewer]

Now THAT is funny. You are so sensitive that he had to run away from the thread.

Hey Chance, sorry, you had a good run, but, Ken is my new hero.

[B-Fly]

Ha ha, so funny that we're attacking each other and pissing each other off rather than working to better understand each other and our positions. Woohoo.