#___ingwhileblack

[DMT]

I made the infamous ‘whitey? ‘ post. I found it ironic that someone who posts about all the racial strife Trump has unleashed, would use a racial slur to do it. It doesn’t mean I am supporting racism or that I am claiming victim hood status or any of the other nonsense you guys are trying to manufacture so you can ride in on your white horse and virtue signal away.

I didn't say that, merely that anyone who believes that white Americans are victims of racism doesn't understand what racism is.

[nots]

I didn't say that, merely that anyone who believes that white Americans are victims of racism doesn't understand what racism is.

I wouldn’t argue that point. I would argue using the term ‘whitey’ to make it.

[DMT]

I wouldn’t argue that point. I would argue using the term ‘whitey’ to make it.

And I can understand that viewpoint.

[DMT]

I didn't say that, merely that anyone who believes that white Americans are victims of racism doesn't understand what racism is.

Forgot to add that unfortunately this includes millions of white Americans.

[Ken]

Considering you posted about racism against the majority race (i.e., white people), yes. ITC posting "good thread" in response means I was responding to him as well.

Cool. You are ignorant.

I'm white. In order to pay for college (my parents were bankrupt, I did not have any money at all), in HS I had a job working for a construction supply delivery company. I worked in the warehouses loading concrete and rebar into trucks for delivery. We would hand load 90 lb bags of concrete onto a flatbed 5 feet off the ground. In Texas, in the middle of summer. It was a great experience and it gave me an appreciation for hard work. I would not trade it for anything. I would come home every day and go straight to bed and wake up with back pain (as a kid - I can't imagine what it would feel like now). Back breaking work, but rewarding. I earned my paycheck.

But I was the only white person working in the warehouse, with 10 guys who were of Hispanic descent. They didn't talk to me other than to tell me what to do, they stayed to themselves, they all shared food but rarely offered me any. They would give me all the worst jobs. I was physically pushed off the side of a flatbed a couple times for their entertainment alone. New Hispanic employees would be hired, and they were accepted immediately into the "club". But I was an outcast. Other employees in the warehouse did not call me by my name, I was called "pinche gringo" (look it up if you need to).

Eventually after I busted my ass for months they accepted me and I got to partake in everything - great lunches, they made the best food, they helped me when I had a problem just like they would with each other. And they started using my actual name. They eventually started working WITH me rather than telling me what to do. By the time I graduated from HS and went on to college I held no grudges.

But prior to that I was not accepted simply because I was white. I was the whipping boy.

That's racism. Now is it as bad as much of the racism that goes on now with people getting shot or not getting a chance or getting persecuted. Absolutely not. Not anywhere close. But it is racism. Racism is not unique to race, it is a problem due to prejudice against those who don't look like you.

Once we all stop the prejudiced, bigoted garbage, this country will be a lot better. But calling people "whitey" or "pinche gringo", is not helpful. Is it as bad as the garbage that minorities have to deal with? Absolutely not. But it is racist.

On a side note, DMT, you can go ahead and shut the hell up about topics you know nothing about (specifically other people's personal experiences). Thanks, appreciate it.

[DMT]

Sorry to trigger you Ken. I'm glad you were able to persevere and find success in life. Those few months of experiencing discrimination certainly make you an expert on racism. Most white people who've had to overcome obstacles in life have similar feelings. It's ok.

However, you also had the choice to leave the job whenever you wanted but chose to stay. People of color can't extricate themselves from our racist system.

[Sour Masher]

It is unfortunate that folks here that probably agree on 90% of the issues in this thread on being driven apart by divisive language and misdirected anger. I understand everyone's position here, and there are potentially some interesting discussions to be had on this topic (like the distinction we could make between individual racism and institutional racism, and how, certainly, whites can experience the former, but really don't, on a large scale, experience the latter, in our society), but they are not gonna happen now, because people got personal and insulting. To be specific, I understand TW's perspective that "Whitey" isn't all that bad of a term, especially in the context of race power dynamics in this country. However, nots calling out the use of that term was pretty benign, and seemed to be genuine in being a call for civility in a thread about being civil, and the response to that could have been more polite and less "you must be dumb and/or on the side of racists, stop being a snowflake." But folks took the bait (can't see I haven't been hooked by such comments myself, so not judging, really), and here we are, drifting farther away from productive dialogue.

[Ken]

Sorry to trigger you Ken. I'm glad you were able to persevere and find success in life. Those few months of experiencing discrimination certainly make you an expert on racism. Most white people who've had to overcome obstacles in life have similar feelings. It's ok.

Can't read your tone here so I'm likely misreading it (I took it one way on first read and then doubled back giving you more latitude since I can't read your tone), but I'm no "expert" nor did I ever claim to be. If this is sarcasm it is misdirected.

I am interested though, was being pushed off a flatbed truck because I'm white racist or not racist. Please confirm for me since you've told me I don't understand it.

However, you also had the choice to leave the job whenever you wanted but chose to stay.

That's the old beaten wife argument, I'm not sure you really want to go with that.

We had no money and I was instructed by my parents that I needed to go to work there. I don't think they cared what name I was being called, we had no money and if I wanted to go to college I had to do this. I was in HS so not qualified for many jobs. I also didn't know any different, I was 16.

[Ken]

It is unfortunate that folks here that probably agree on 90% of the issues in this thread on being driven apart by divisive language and misdirected anger. I understand everyone's position here, and there are potentially some interesting discussions to be had on this topic (like the distinction we could make between individual racism and institutional racism, and how, certainly, whites can experience the former, but really don't, on a large scale, experience the latter, in our society), but they are not gonna happen now, because people got personal and insulting. To be specific, I understand TW's perspective that "Whitey" isn't all that bad of a term, especially in the context of race power dynamics in this country. However, nots calling out the use of that term was pretty benign, and seemed to be genuine in being a call for civility in a thread about being civil, and the response to that could have been more polite and less "you must be dumb and/or on the side of racists, stop being a snowflake." But folks took the bait (can't see I haven't been hooked by such comments myself, so not judging, really), and here we are, drifting farther away from productive dialogue.

Personally civility was out then window when a message was directed at me of:

"OH MY GOD, GO FIND A SAFE SPACE YOU DAMN CRYBABIES WHO WANT TO DEFEND ANONYMOUS RACISTS!!!

OKAY, WHITEY?!"

At that point, sorry but "bait" or not, it is getting a response

[DMT]

Ken you're asking me to respond to an incident from your life that I have zero connection to. It sounds pretty horrific and I can't imagine your parents would support your life being threatened on a job. Were your co-workers being prejudiced assholes?
Certainly. Were they criminally violent? Sounds like maybe they were. Were they being racist in a system that values white-ness over people of color in every state- backed mechanism in our country? No, they weren't.

[Sour Masher]

Personally civility was out then window when a message was directed at me of:

"OH MY GOD, GO FIND A SAFE SPACE YOU DAMN CRYBABIES WHO WANT TO DEFEND ANONYMOUS RACISTS!!!

OKAY, WHITEY?!"

At that point, sorry but "bait" or not, it is getting a response

I agree, which is why I called out TW as being the person that started this digression. His responses to both nots and you were uncalled for and counter-productive. And as i said, I'm not above being baited myself. Someone says that to me, I'm responding too, even if such a post doesn't really deserve a response.

[Sour Masher]

Ken you're asking me to respond to an incident from your life that I have zero connection to. It sounds pretty horrific and I can't imagine your parents would support your life being threatened on a job. Were your co-workers being prejudiced assholes, yes. Were they criminally violent? Sounds like maybe they were. Were they being racist in a system that values white-ness over people of color in every state- backed system in our country? No, they weren't.

I'll disagree with that. I get annoyed when folks says minorities cannot be racist in our society. There is a difference between individual racism and institutional racism. I agree with you that in the larger system of our society, dominated by white privileged as it is, individual experiences of racism have different long term consequences for whites than others in this country. However, it is clear that Ken met a group of individuals that treated him unfairly based on his race. As you said, his options and recourses were broader than a minority that must fight an entire system of systemic oppression, but that does not mean that Ken wasn't assaulted by racist assholes.

ETA: I really think "our/my" position on issues of institutional racism would get more traction and support if folks on my side were not so quick to criticize and attack those who may be allies, but who have lived experiences that make them annoyed at being told "you don't understand, and you never can." I think it is better to acknowledge things like, whites are not the only ones capable of being racists in the world or our country (although, it is hard to argue we are the best at it). We can respect their experiences and how things like social class and economics play a big part of our lives too. And then, maybe if we show we understand that, other folks will be open to hearing the perspective that systemic racism in this country is real and provides an additional barrier, on a large scale, to under-represented minorities in our society.

[DMT]

TW has acknowledged multiple times that he tends to go overboard on occasion and he has apologized. I would agree this was one of them.

[nots]

TW has acknowledged multiple times that he tends to go overboard on occasion and he has apologized. I would agree this was one of them.

Right, but he hasn’t acknowledged it this time and neither has Revo

[DMT]

I'll disagree with that. I get annoyed when folks says minorities cannot be racist in our society. There is a difference between individual racism and institutional racism. I agree with you that in the larger system of our society, dominated by white privileged as it is, individual experiences of racism have different long term consequences for whites than others in this country. However, it is clear that Ken met a group of individuals that treated him unfairly based on his race. As you said, his options and recourses were broader than a minority that must fight an entire system of systemic oppression, but that does not mean that Ken wasn't assaulted by racist assholes.

But the difference is, he had state- sanctioned legal recourse to press charges if his descriptions of the events are accurate. His co-workers likely did not (as nor do millions of people today).