2018 Midterm Election Thread

[cardboardbox]

I asked the question of what are the Blue Wavers going to run on?

Russia, Stormy, RESIST!, and raising your taxes.

[gcstomp]

sigh, Bernie, you state you are a middle of the roader, I strongly disagree there, and want to focus on "The DOW is up about 50% since Trump took office after dropping 8% in Obama’s last year. Not sure what to make of either but it’s hardly a sign of loss of confidence." when this just does not make sense.

You dont realize that was cherry picking, or as I said "Bernie chose to play the look how great market is under Trump" and my presenting 8 years of Dow under Obama is better measure? You say you dont know what to make of Dow holding up yet you have to know there was a massive tax bill passed that targeted giving mega corps and billionaires a historic shift of wealth in their direction. How could market tank, it was artificially propped up, this is obvious, right? I mean, this is silly, I need to defend the word play to you, when it was correct. I am a sucker I get drawn back in when I see terribly low hanging fruit, I mean, you dont know what to make of it? But to what end, this is not helping me, you, anyone, just noise.

[Bernie Brewer]

sigh, Bernie, you state you are a middle of the roader, I strongly disagree there, and want to focus on "The DOW is up about 50% since Trump took office after dropping 8% in Obama’s last year. Not sure what to make of either but it’s hardly a sign of loss of confidence." when this just does not make sense.

You dont realize that was cherry picking, or as I said "Bernie chose to play the look how great market is under Trump" and my presenting 8 years of Dow under Obama is better measure? You say you dont know what to make of Dow holding up yet you have to know there was a massive tax bill passed that targeted giving mega corps and billionaires a historic shift of wealth in their direction. How could market tank, it was artificially propped up, this is obvious, right? I mean, this is silly, I need to defend the word play to you, when it was correct. I am a sucker I get drawn back in when I see terribly low hanging fruit, I mean, you dont know what to make of it? But to what end, this is not helping me, you, anyone, just noise.

Sorry, my word play didn't make sense to you. And, you found me out, I am huge Trumpster! Talk about sigh! Oh well. Tell me again, what is the Blue Wave going to run on? CBB hit right on the head!

Edited - because I just don’t care that much.

[nots]

sigh, Bernie, you state you are a middle of the roader, I strongly disagree there, and want to focus on "The DOW is up about 50% since Trump took office after dropping 8% in Obama’s last year. Not sure what to make of either but it’s hardly a sign of loss of confidence." when this just does not make sense.

You dont realize that was cherry picking, or as I said "Bernie chose to play the look how great market is under Trump" and my presenting 8 years of Dow under Obama is better measure? You say you dont know what to make of Dow holding up yet you have to know there was a massive tax bill passed that targeted giving mega corps and billionaires a historic shift of wealth in their direction. How could market tank, it was artificially propped up, this is obvious, right? I mean, this is silly, I need to defend the word play to you, when it was correct. I am a sucker I get drawn back in when I see terribly low hanging fruit, I mean, you dont know what to make of it? But to what end, this is not helping me, you, anyone, just noise.

The massive tax bill giving corps and billionaires a historic shift of wealth is also putting about $1900/yr in my pocket. Crumbs for Nancy Pelosi for sure (and perhaps you too), but i am appreciative

[Hornsby]

Russia, Stormy, RESIST!, and raising your taxes.

It's also going to be guns...those kids aren't going away, nor are their parents.

[OaklandA's]

The massive tax bill giving corps and billionaires a historic shift of wealth is also putting about $1900/yr in my pocket. Crumbs for Nancy Pelosi for sure (and perhaps you too), but i am appreciative

Of course tax cuts can put money into people's (and corporations') pockets. That's not exactly breaking news. But are they worthwhile when they create substantial increases in an already too-large deficit? We could make federal individual income taxes zero, and put $10K more in the average individual's pocket, but the annual deficit would increase by $2 Trillion. Would that be a good tradeoff?

[nots]

Of course tax cuts can put money into people's (and corporations') pockets. That's not exactly breaking news. But are they worthwhile when they create substantial increases in an already too-large deficit? We could make federal individual income taxes zero, and put $10K more in the average individual's pocket, but the annual deficit would increase by $2 Trillion. Would that be a good tradeoff?

If you check my posting history, you will see I have railed against the exploding debt since Bush was President. I also railed against it when Obama was President. I am pretty confident that none of his supporters in the room had anything to say as he doubled the debt, but now it’s a talking point as Trump is on the path to (almost) doubling it again. I think fiscal responsibility is a great thing but I wonder why this is an issue now.
Getting to your actual post: I honestly believe we are past the point of no return on the debt. If you check out the CBO projections prior to Trump even being elected, the deficit was expected to soar over $1T per year from 2021 on. Again, this is prior to his election. By the end of the next decade, it is projected that the INTEREST alone on the debt will approach $1T/ year. That is without any kind of economic slowdown or catastrophe that drastically increases the interest rates. Imagine what would happen if rates climbed to their late 1970s era. My advice to you and everyone else in here is to worry about your own financial future. Pensions are in crisis (check out what’s going on in Pa, NJ, CA and especially Ill )Social Security is going to have to be greatly altered or revamped. The whole economic system is headed for a day of reckoning and while that may seem fatalistic or melodramatic, I don’t see a solid counter argument. Based on all of that, yes, this lifelong deficit hawk would rather keep my $1900/yr for the future than throw it into the federal spending black hole, even if it adds another $X Trillion to the deficit.
Edit: There’s so much more I would like to tlalk about: Simpson Bowles, the total lack of fiscal discipline by either party and their failure to make hard choices, the gross military spending (which is NEVER going to be curtailed) etc, but I think I’ve become the old man-yelling-at-the-clouds so I will spare all of you. Suffice it to say I believe we are well down the path to becoming Greece or Iceland—just a matter of how long it takes us to get there.

[OaklandA's]

Based on all of that, yes, this lifelong deficit hawk would rather keep my $1900/yr for the future than throw it into the federal spending black hole, even if it adds another $X Trillion to the deficit.

You should at least understand the basic principle that deficit spending can help get out of economic downturns. And when the economy is doing well, the goal should be to reduce the deficit. This is basically what happened in the Obama administration, and I think it makes sound economic sense.

But if your attitude is that individuals should take whatever they can get because the country is going to go bankrupt anyway, then there is really no point in further discussion. Although you may have stumbled onto a good talking point for the Democrats - "Democrats actually care about the future of the country!".

[nots]

You should at least understand the basic principle that deficit spending can help get out of economic downturns. And when the economy is doing well, the goal should be to reduce the deficit. This is basically what happened in the Obama administration, and I think it makes sound economic sense.

But if your attitude is that individuals should take whatever they can get because the country is going to go bankrupt anyway, then there is really no point in further discussion. Although you may have stumbled onto a good talking point for the Democrats - "Democrats actually care about the future of the country!".

Yes, I understand the theory behind deficit spending. I also understand that 8 years of deficit spending to generate the slowest post recession recovery ever means it wasn’t terribly effective.

[onejayhawk]

onejay, Bernie chose to play the look how great market is under Trump. I just pointed Dow out the entire 8 years under Obama. I didnt just out of blue say lets talk about how great market was under prior President, but was trying to point out Bernies 1 year was the cherry picking part, but no biggie.

That mega tax plan that Trump proudly penned thru gave massive breaks to corps, Exxon alone made something like a 50 billion windfall, hundreds of companies did massive stock buyback plans that resulted in higher stock prices, it would have been pretty amazing for market to tank considering the plan passed was all about mega corps and billionaires getting even more wealthy while pushing the vast majority of population further down the inequality rabbit hole, all at the expense of vastly higher deficits. Monster deficit not for the greater good as Obama tried to do, but for the benefit of a handful. I guess in either case our kids are screwed as one administration to another is pushing higher deficits, who cares reasons, but reckoning is acoming.

Corporate profits are rather like flower blooms--showy and a sign of health. Fruit is down the road a ways, but there is a definite sequence.

No doubt that the tax law gives massive breaks to corps, but that is not necessarily bad. As long as the breaks mirror what other countries do, it's just a level playing field issue. I am not as sanguine as some, who think that higher profits equals more jobs and better pay. Rather, it is a necessary precursor. Profits always precede new jobs and better pay, hence blossoms before fruit.

J

[Hi.I'm.Mandy]

Corporate profits are rather like flower blooms--showy and a sign of health. Fruit is down the road a ways, but there is a definite sequence.

No doubt that the tax law gives massive breaks to corps, but that is not necessarily bad. As long as the breaks mirror what other countries do, it's just a level playing field issue. I am not as sanguine as some, who think that higher profits equals more jobs and better pay. Rather, it is a necessary precursor. Profits always precede new jobs and better pay, hence blossoms before fruit.

J

I made my mom a home made card for Mother's day with a beautiful picture.of corporate profits....she loved it !

[cardboardbox]

Although you may have stumbled onto a good talking point for the Democrats - "Democrats actually care about the future of the country!".

LOL! Thanks for the good laugh tonight, I needed that!

[onejayhawk]

I made my mom a home made card for Mother's day with a beautiful picture.of corporate profits....she loved it !

I have met women like that. At least you turned out a bit less mercenary.

J

[Judge Jude]

Suffice it to say I believe we are well down the path to becoming Greece or Iceland—just a matter of how long it takes us to get there.

I imagine you have read Michael "Moneyball" Lewis's great book "The Big Short" - or at least seen the movie.

There's a lesser-known sequel called "Boomerang" which is just as good.
Lewis travels to key countries in the worldwide collapse - Germany, Greece, Iceland, Ireland as well as California - and explains the culture that led them to their choices, and the cultural fallout in the ensuing years. It's amazing.

[nots]

I imagine you have read Michael "Moneyball" Lewis's great book "The Big Short" - or at least seen the movie.

There's a lesser-known sequel called "Boomerang" which is just as good.
Lewis travels to key countries in the worldwide collapse - Germany, Greece, Iceland, Ireland as well as California - and explains the culture that led them to their choices, and the cultural fallout in the ensuing years. It's amazing.

Thanks for the tip—looking for a new read