2018 Midterm Election Thread

[frae]

Election fraud definitively has been claimed. "definitively occurred"?

talk about guilty until proven innocent - I hope if I appear before a court, you aren't on my jury.

and the "it's always the GOP" meme is comical.

"street money" payouts to locals in exchange for showing up to vote has been a revered practice in Philadelphia and Chicago, among other cities, for decades. who do you think they are being told to vote for? you only get one guess.

The guy in the story who I am too lazy to go back to had his crew collecting absentee ballots. That in itself is against NC election law. Now beyond that what we get to I don't know, but that guy worked for the Harris campaign. Is any of that false?

"Dowless sat at a desk at the back of one of the strip’s vacant storefronts, where he oversaw a crew of workers who collected absentee ballots from voters and updated the Harris campaign on the numbers, according to Jeff Smith, who is the building’s owner and a former Dowless friend.

Smith provided his account about the primary campaign to state investigators, who are examining whether Dowless’s activities then and in the general election violated North Carolina’s election laws, which allow only individual voters or designated close relatives to mail a ballot."

You want to say one guys account isn't enough that's cool I am not in a court of law but I don't think he made this up as it backs up the voter irregularity numbers I posted earlier where the two counties were way off in absentee ballots requested and turned in and how the Republican won the absentee count in a county he usually doesn't by a good margin.

Ane because I am a nerd here is the NY Times article with this quote...

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/04/us/politics/north-carolina-election-fraud.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

"State officials are particularly concerned that people working on behalf of Mr. Harris’s campaign picked up, or “harvested,” absentee ballots, a crime under North Carolina law. In one affidavit, a Bladen County resident, Emma Shipman, wrote that she had handed over her ballot to a woman who told her she was assigned to collect ballots in the district. Another voter wrote that she had handed over her incomplete ballot to a woman, who promised she would finish it.

The practice raised questions about whether ballots could have been improperly submitted for the Republican candidate or discarded if they were marked for the Democratic nominee."

Now what happens to is the question, how rampant was it? The election board will have to decide if this rises to calling for a new election or if they decide to just punish the individual in charge. Where did the knowledge of this stop. Those are all things I can't know from reading, but yes I am fairly confident that electoral fraud occurred in this case.

[DMT]

North Carolina, Wisconsin, and Michigan. When have the Democrats tried to entrench their power on their way out the door even after getting their asses handed to them?

Al Gore didn't complain after conceding as much as Trump has after winning!

[DMT]

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/12/tim-scotts-stand-against-voter-disenfranchisement/577132/

"It should not fall to the only black Republican senator to block a man who spent his career seeking to disenfranchise minority voters from being appointed to the federal bench.

The fact that Farr came so close to being seated on the federal bench is a symptom of a greater sickness afflicting American democracy, which is that one of the two major parties has decided that disenfranchising a core constituency of its rival party is a legitimate political approach. The polarization of the two parties into one that is almost entirely white and one that relies substantially on the support of racial and ethnic minorities has exacerbated a trend toward conservatives believing that their opponents’ political victories are illegitimate. It is no coincidence that the voter-fraud conspiracies of Trump and his defenders center around undocumented immigrants or black neighborhoods—alleging criminality allows them to suggest political victories that rely on minority voters are usurpations, without saying so explicitly."

[Ken]

Also comical is the "but both sides are to blame" response to everything.

I presume this is a response to my comment. Perhaps not, but I'll reply anyway!

To me the "both sides are to blame" is actually the most logical conclusion that comes up in these heated discussions. In my opinion it's quite naive to think that one party is "all good" and the other is "all bad", but that's what recent political discussions have become. Consistent yelling at each other with no concession that the other side has valid points as well. Sadly it has taken over my social media with friends on both sides posting ridiculous garbage. I can't stand either one!

Instead of "we are the good guys and do no wrong, it must be all them", it is much more logical and likely to believe that both parties are flawed. Because here's a hint... they are.

[Judge Jude]

North Carolina, Wisconsin, and Michigan. When have the Democrats tried to entrench their power on their way out the door even after getting their asses handed to them?

Al Gore didn't complain after conceding as much as Trump has after winning!

Al Gore?
the guy who got an all-D Florida Supreme Court to illegally delay certification of the vote?
the guy who succeeded in getting the court to agree that a recount should only be conducted in "his" counties of Miami-Dade and Broward? SCOTUS kicked that to the curb by a 7-2 vote, and it wasn't the proudest moment for the "2."

look, I would not be at all surprised by shady things having happened in North Carolina - or Florida. but increasingly in 2018, "evidence" has become a mere nuisance in the way of a narrative. that is a sorry state of affairs.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/democr...y-get-to-do-it
this is from way back in April

Dept. of Glass Houses
Democrats Hate Gerrymandering — Except When They Get to Do It

In Maryland, New Mexico, and elsewhere, Democrats are just as guilty as the Republicans are in other states — which tells us that the real problem is deeper.

"I live in Alexandria, Virginia, a city that Democrats dominate. In May of 2009, however, one Republican managed to get elected to the six-member City Council. This was apparently too much for Democrats to stomach. One month after his election, the City Council voted to move municipal elections from May to November—an attempt to squash the chances that Republicans could compensate for their numerical disadvantages by organizing to win low-turnout elections. It worked."

[DMT]

I've already agreed with you that Gore completely bungled the recount, but I'm talking after he conceded, he didn't ask Clinton to weaken the office of the presidency since he lost. Which is exactly what those three states have done or are currently trying to do to their incoming Democratic Governors.

Gerrymandering is bullshit no matter who is doing it. I have never defended it.

[Judge Jude]

me neither

[nots]

The guy in the story who I am too lazy to go back to had his crew collecting absentee ballots. That in itself is against NC election law. Now beyond that what we get to I don't know, but that guy worked for the Harris campaign. Is any of that false?

"Dowless sat at a desk at the back of one of the strip’s vacant storefronts, where he oversaw a crew of workers who collected absentee ballots from voters and updated the Harris campaign on the numbers, according to Jeff Smith, who is the building’s owner and a former Dowless friend.

Smith provided his account about the primary campaign to state investigators, who are examining whether Dowless’s activities then and in the general election violated North Carolina’s election laws, which allow only individual voters or designated close relatives to mail a ballot."

You want to say one guys account isn't enough that's cool I am not in a court of law but I don't think he made this up as it backs up the voter irregularity numbers I posted earlier where the two counties were way off in absentee ballots requested and turned in and how the Republican won the absentee count in a county he usually doesn't by a good margin.

Ane because I am a nerd here is the NY Times article with this quote...

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/04/us/politics/north-carolina-election-fraud.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

"State officials are particularly concerned that people working on behalf of Mr. Harris’s campaign picked up, or “harvested,” absentee ballots, a crime under North Carolina law. In one affidavit, a Bladen County resident, Emma Shipman, wrote that she had handed over her ballot to a woman who told her she was assigned to collect ballots in the district. Another voter wrote that she had handed over her incomplete ballot to a woman, who promised she would finish it.

The practice raised questions about whether ballots could have been improperly submitted for the Republican candidate or discarded if they were marked for the Democratic nominee."

Now what happens to is the question, how rampant was it? The election board will have to decide if this rises to calling for a new election or if they decide to just punish the individual in charge. Where did the knowledge of this stop. Those are all things I can't know from reading, but yes I am fairly confident that electoral fraud occurred in this case.

Not related to anything here, but in California, absentee can be picked up and returned by anyone legally (called ballot harvesting). I see the potential for a lot of fraud with that law as it is currently written. I can’t imagine it is that difficult to return your own ballot via the mail.

[nots]

FWIW, I have long thought that there is more election fraud than we have previously thought or been told. I suspect this isn’t the first case of it, nor do I think it’s going to be the last.

[baldgriff]

Not related to anything here, but in California, absentee can be picked up and returned by anyone legally (called ballot harvesting). I see the potential for a lot of fraud with that law as it is currently written. I can’t imagine it is that difficult to return your own ballot via the mail.

From the LA Times - Nov 20, 2018:

The crude exchange played out hundreds of times on L.A.’s skid row during the 2016 election cycle and again this year, prosecutors said Tuesday as they announced criminal charges against nine people accused in a fraud scheme.

https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/...120-story.html


Edit to add: I dont care which side has done it - its wrong and exploitation at its worst!

[frae]

Since I know both sides can cherry pick our voter/electoral fraud instances throughout US election history here is all them that were deemed proven by the Heritage Foundation and most of those resulted in convictions...

https://www.heritage.org/voterfraud

And here is a pdf link that you can open and read about each and every one...

https://www.heritage.org/sites/default/files/voterfraud_download/VoterFraudCases_5.pdf

Now back to our show of the currently happening and being reported on electoral fraud in NC where the impact could have actually changed the elections results.

[nots]

Since I know we can both cherry pick our voter/electoral fraud instances throughout US election history here is all them that were deemed proven by the Heritage Foundation and most of those resulted in convictions...

https://www.heritage.org/voterfraud

And here is a pdf link that you can open and read about each and every one...

https://www.heritage.org/sites/default/files/voterfraud_download/VoterFraudCases_5.pdf

Now back to our show of the currently happening and being reported on electoral fraud in NC.

Sorry—What I posted I thought it was relevant to the conversation. Perhaps I will let you pre-screen my future responses so you can determine if they have merit.

[frae]

Sorry—What I posted I thought it was relevant to the conversation. Perhaps I will let you pre-screen my future responses so you can determine if they have merit.

Mine was just pointing out I know we can both find stuff that is wrong it has happened. Post as you will and I will reply as I will and I was really replying to BG finding the fraud in LA that I could quote but basically sounds like they probably got very few if any votes past the signature screeners. We have proven cases of voter fraud and what you said is accurate it may even be deeper than we know but I am not sure it usually rises to the level of impacting elections in anyway, but I am all for investigating any voter or electoral fraud that has merits and prosectuting people who do it.

[nots]

Fair enough. Ballot harvesting is illegal in NC and it looks like election fraud was perpetrated that way. Ballot harvesting is legal in California, and although I know of no case of fraud having been committed there by that means, I think it’s very possible that it could be. Therefore, I think ballot harvesting should be illegal in California.

[frae]

Fair enough. Ballot harvesting is illegal in NC and it looks like election fraud was perpetrated that way. Ballot harvesting is legal in California, and although I know of no case of fraud having been committed there by that means, I think it’s very possible that it could be. Therefore, I think ballot harvesting should be illegal in California.

I wouldn't disagree with you, I don't know the logic for it. I would not be surprised to see states look at these laws more closely.