President Donald Trump

[Judge Jude]

There's no reason to cut a deal, because the courts have ruled that Trump can't end DACA, and in January, there will be enough votes in both the Senate and the House to pass a clean DACA bill.

well, that's it then - wait, Constitution rock tells me there is another step....

there also is my larger point - the Ds are in a position to solve a very important issue to them because Trump is so desperate. do they want to achieve that and aid a large number of people in distress (you can pick a different issue), or are they more vindictive than they are passionate?

[OaklandA's]

there also is my larger point - the Ds are in a position to solve a very important issue to them because Trump is so desperate. do they want to achieve that and aid a large number of people in distress (you can pick a different issue), or are they more vindictive than they are passionate?

But the DACA people aren't in distress at the moment. When they were (back in February), the Democrats were willing to fight for them.

Giving up $25B for a wall is a bad idea. The Democrats know it is stupid, and many Republicans do too. That's a lot of money to waste. There needs to be a very significant return to justify such a waste of money, and honestly, I don't know what that would be. None of the things that the Democrats want are similarly wasteful - in fact, I would say that the things they want (expand health care insurance, expand voting rights, equal rights and pay for all, etc.) are not wasteful at all.

[Bernie Brewer]

What if...

What if Trump is beginning to see the writing in the wall and recognizing that he is increasingly unlikely to win re-election and decides to hold out for his damn wall no matter what. If you can’t build it up, tear that f’er down. Burn it to the ground. The wolves appear to be circling the door at the White House with Mueller, he is going to find it increasingly hard to get anything done with the house flip. WTF!

Just a scary thought. Not my opinion nor am I in favor of it before someone misreads my post.

[Judge Jude]

Giving up $25B for a wall is a bad idea.

well, now it's $5B, isn't it?

look, I don't support the wall, and I realize that so Trump is so erratic and infuriating that it is difficult to keep one's eyes on the prize. but I can't imagine that there isn't a real, tangible benefit that they can gain to help people they say they want to help. the cost is $5B for a wall. I would like to live in a world where that figure is in within the first 6 or 7 points of the total budget.

I still can't believe the guy got elected President, but he did. And this was one of his core issues. For the other side to refuse to make a deal that for them would be a net positive doesn't jibe with me. I think egos have gotten ahead of public service.

Again.

[nullnor]

Bush vetoed the 5 billion bill for Children's Health Insurance Program (CHIP).

if i were the democrats i would never give Trump funding for his wall, not matter what, big or small, just to poke him in the eye and since it's clearly one of the most important things to him.

and there's no way Trump doesn't run for reelection or think he won't win. he's gotten this far and is totally embolden. and staying president helps him legally.

i don't see any compromises being made on immigration. when Bush tried it democrats were willing to remove the anchor baby rule thing. but the GOP said no. it's either all or nothing, so it's nothing. and really the republicans are screwed no matter what they do. most immigrants just aren't going to vote for them. unless you're Cuban and live in Florida i think. the only thing they can do is make a 180 degree turn, like the democrats giving up the South, and hope for the best. or they can keep demonizing them and try to win by 51%.

yet it's a useful strategy to win elections especially during bad economic times when you can pretend to have someone to blame. and the world is becoming more anti-immigrant. so who knows. but here in the US it's not really working for them when you start seeing close elections in places like Texas. and even if you legalize 11 million people, they'll just turn around and vote democrat, lol.

[Judge Jude]

"if i were the democrats i would never give Trump funding for his wall, not matter what, big or small, just to poke him in the eye and since it's clearly one of the most important things to him."

and really, nothing else matters.

what does this guy know, anyway?

"You never let a serious crisis go to waste. And what I mean by that, it's an opportunity to do things you think you could not do before."

Rahm Emanuel

[nullnor]

"You never let a serious crisis go to waste. And what I mean by that, it's an opportunity to do things you think you could not do before."

Rahm Emanuel

chaos is a ladder...

[nullnor]

i am actually confused. were republicans always anti-immigrant? cause if you think about it, they can offer more than democrats can. business interests align. most of the jobs are republican. creates more competition and lowers wages which is what big GOP donors want. so far there's been enough jobs to fill that the conflict of interest in the party hasn't emerged yet. they align religiously. contrary to gossip, most immigrants are hard workers so they would believe like Tom Brady if you work hard enough you'll win or be successful. immigrants are favorable towards a strong military. they come from countries with dictators, and probably our best researchers in defense are foreign born.

in contrast what do the democrats have to offer immigrants? asylum. .. i don't know policy-wise i think that's about it. the only reason we gain an advantage nowadays is because we aren't republican.

so i don't really know history. there was operation wetback when IKE was president. and conservatism in general is accused of neophobia or xenophobia. but it was the republican party that freed the slaves. so depending on how long this has been going on, the Sean Hannity's have been disagreeing with the Koch's for a while. except back then Sean Hannity was a democrat.

so it's the democrats fault for giving up the south that now plagues or stalks the republican party.

but if they just focused they have more common interests in policies in immigration than democrats, they too could so-called give up the south.

[revo]

Shutdown....go ahead, give it to me. Shutdown, take me through the night....

[mjl]

if the Democrats are making any effort to cut a new deal to solve DACA as part of this impasse, I'd be interested to read the link

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/422529-senate-in-last-minute-talks-to-find-shut-down-deal

(note: I bet Trump would just love to have his wall saved by Flake and Corker.)

Retiring Sens. Jeff Flake (R-Ariz.) and Bob Corker (R-Tenn.) are trying to negotiate a bipartisan deal with Democrats that could pass both chambers, win the president’s signature and avoid a government shutdown.

Flake and Corker were spotted chatting with Democratic centrists including Sens. Heidi Heitkamp (N.D.) and Angus King (I-Maine) on the Senate floor.

Flake is pushing a deal that would reauthorize the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) program in exchange for border wall funding.

Flake voted against a motion to proceed to the House-passed stopgap because Democrats have vowed to defeat it and he wants to find a resolution sooner instead of later.

“I don’t see any reason to proceed to a bill that can’t pass,” said Flake told reporters after meeting with GOP colleagues on how to proceed.

He said he wants to “find a bill that can pass.”

“I think one that could — if we’re going to reopen this thing to add more money for a wall or steel slats, or whatever you want to call it, then throw DACA in too,” Flake said, adding that several colleagues support his position.

[TranaGreg]

Just a thought - you could reduce the cost of the steel slat wall if you remove the tariffs Trump imposed on our Canadian steel.

Hope this helps. ��

[onejayhawk]

But the DACA people aren't in distress at the moment. When they were (back in February), the Democrats were willing to fight for them.

Giving up $25B for a wall is a bad idea. The Democrats know it is stupid, and many Republicans do too. That's a lot of money to waste. There needs to be a very significant return to justify such a waste of money, and honestly, I don't know what that would be. None of the things that the Democrats want are similarly wasteful - in fact, I would say that the things they want (expand health care insurance, expand voting rights, equal rights and pay for all, etc.) are not wasteful at all.

That's as damning a statement as I have heard in a while. You would also have trouble justifying that it would be money wasted. Inefficient is one thing; wasted is a very diffferent thing.

Shutdown....go ahead, give it to me. Shutdown, take me through the night....

Merry Christmas.

J

[Bernie Brewer]

Unfortunately, this is largely about “wins” and “losses,” in fact, that’s all it’s ever about these days. Schumer and Pelosi won’t cave because that’s a win for Trump. Trump will probably cave but that’s a win for the Dems. It’s not about progress and the good of country, it’s about getting voters to be on the side of the “winners.”

[baldgriff]

Unfortunately, this is largely about “wins” and “losses,” in fact, that’s all it’s ever about these days. Schumer and Pelosi won’t cave because that’s a win for Trump. Trump will probably cave but that’s a win for the Dems. It’s not about progress and the good of country, it’s about getting voters to be on the side of the “winners.”

Thanks for confirming something that has been my contention for almost a decade now. The game of politics and governance has changed - it is no longer about finding compromise but rather winning at all cost including mutually assured destruction. It is sad that the idea of bi-partisanship appears to have gone the way of the phoenix.

Of course our voting mentality has changed also. Where we once voted based on concerns and platform issues - all to many people are more worried about voting for the winner.

[Gregg]

Unfortunately, this is largely about “wins” and “losses,” in fact, that’s all it’s ever about these days. Schumer and Pelosi won’t cave because that’s a win for Trump. Trump will probably cave but that’s a win for the Dems. It’s not about progress and the good of country, it’s about getting voters to be on the side of the “winners.”

It has been like this for a long time and getting worse. This last election was the worst.