President Donald Trump

[TranaGreg]

Here's what I don't understand about this guy. Why get caught in a lie that will take 20 seconds to fact check?

But getting caught in a lie hasn't really had any negative repercussions for him, and there's a lot of people that will believe it without bothering to fact check.

[baldgriff]

But getting caught in a lie hasn't really had any negative repercussions for him, and there's a lot of people that will believe it without bothering to fact check.

Here is the problem.... who do you go to for "fact checking" - Trump during the campaign set up the problem related to the Press (and journalism) tending to be more about getting clicks and selling advertisement than actually doing any real journalism. Whether true or not, there was certainly enough fog over the last decade or so where the 4th state should have/could have done a better job. There is a general distrust of the media, which has likely allowed him to get away with more lying than before. Why? Well, the people that should have held themselves to a higher standard, which would have demanded the respect they earned from doing proper journalism, sold out and decided that journalistic integrity was for sale to the highest bidder - both to the right and the left.

So if you dont trust any of the large news outlets - and some guy says "They are lying" - well some guy may be telling the truth.


That all said - at some point the sheer amount of BS has to stop. I dont Tweet - but man someone tell this moron to stop.

[DMT]

Here is the problem.... who do you go to for "fact checking" - Trump during the campaign set up the problem related to the Press (and journalism) tending to be more about getting clicks and selling advertisement than actually doing any real journalism. Whether true or not, there was certainly enough fog over the last decade or so where the 4th state should have/could have done a better job. There is a general distrust of the media, which has likely allowed him to get away with more lying than before. Why? Well, the people that should have held themselves to a higher standard, which would have demanded the respect they earned from doing proper journalism, sold out and decided that journalistic integrity was for sale to the highest bidder - both to the right and the left.

So if you dont trust any of the large news outlets - and some guy says "They are lying" - well some guy may be telling the truth.


That all said - at some point the sheer amount of BS has to stop. I dont Tweet - but man someone tell this moron to stop.

Although neither side is blameless, there is no question that the right has gone much further in their attacks on facts. They turned climate science into a political charade ffs, all to keep those fossil fuel profits flowing. And I don't recall any Democrats publicly declaring the press as "enemies of the people".

Part of the problem is people who always fall back to their safe space of "well both sides are at fault" and then move on to the next topic. No, both sides are not at fault for this fucking disaster presidency. The fault is solely on the people who voted for him and the cowards in congress who enable him to remain in office.

[baldgriff]

DMT -
If it was only that simple.

Of course, coming from the point of view that both of these parties are the problem I would prefer to see most of them gone (from both sides). Thank God I didnt vote for the current President.

[TranaGreg]

Here is the problem.... who do you go to for "fact checking" - Trump during the campaign set up the problem related to the Press (and journalism) tending to be more about getting clicks and selling advertisement than actually doing any real journalism. Whether true or not, there was certainly enough fog over the last decade or so where the 4th state should have/could have done a better job. There is a general distrust of the media, which has likely allowed him to get away with more lying than before. Why? Well, the people that should have held themselves to a higher standard, which would have demanded the respect they earned from doing proper journalism, sold out and decided that journalistic integrity was for sale to the highest bidder - both to the right and the left.

So if you dont trust any of the large news outlets - and some guy says "They are lying" - well some guy may be telling the truth.


That all said - at some point the sheer amount of BS has to stop. I dont Tweet - but man someone tell this moron to stop.

Hey, the news has always worked under a for-profit model (I would think that you prefer that it's unregulated - let the market decide ... what they're producing these days does seem to be what their readers want).

And if people care about whether something is true or not it really isn't that difficult to assess. The problem is that most people don't really care whether it's true or not.

The statement "The GDP Rate (4.2%) is higher than the Unemployment Rate (3.9%) for the first time in over 100 years!" can easily be assessed - is the GDP rate 4.2%? - yes or no? is the unemployment rate 3.9%? - yes or no? When is the last time the GDP rate was higher than the unemployment rate - was it in the last 100 years? - yes or no?

[baldgriff]

I dont have a problem with businesses making money. However, there arent any other businesses that have Constitutional protection to do their job.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

Bankers, Pharmacy, Insurance and all the other markets dont have protection of the Constitution. They have to create product, and efficiently distribute the product. Journalism and the Press have been held up as the "4th Estate". It was always their responsibility to provide some reasonably impartial analysis of what is going on. Otherwise you get "Press" from both sides making it up as they go along. This has played into the problem you state "is that most people don't really care..."

Now its the responsibility of the "4th Estate" to regain it's credibility. That may take time..

[The Feral Slasher]

I dont have a problem with businesses making money. However, there arent any other businesses that have Constitutional protection to do their job.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

Bankers, Pharmacy, Insurance and all the other markets dont have protection of the Constitution. They have to create product, and efficiently distribute the product. Journalism and the Press have been held up as the "4th Estate". It was always their responsibility to provide some reasonably impartial analysis of what is going on. Otherwise you get "Press" from both sides making it up as they go along. This has played into the problem you state "is that most people don't really care..."

Now its the responsibility of the "4th Estate" to regain it's credibility. That may take time..

I interpret the freedom of the press different than you do. I think the freedom allows them to print more or less what they want. I wouldn't think that freedom of the press means they have an obligation to be accurate or truthful or impartial.

[chancellor]

It was always their responsibility to provide some reasonably impartial analysis of what is going on. Otherwise you get "Press" from both sides making it up as they go along. This has played into the problem you state "is that most people don't really care

Pardon, but I beg to differ. The press has always been slanted; go all the way back to Franklin’s work should you so doubt it. Franklin, Jay, Adams, Jefferson, and a host of other founding fathers used and/or owned the “Press” back in the day, and I’d argue their methods for putting forth their views were vitriolic in a way that makes Trump appear to be a calming diplomat.

The concept of a free press was expressly NOT to provide what was perceived as balanced news, it was to allow the freedom for enough views to proliferate such that the best ideas, views, concepts would come to the fore and be recognized. It was also to allow for opposing views to have their own platform.

[baldgriff]

Chance -
Thanks! Honestly - I didnt think of that side of it when making my last post. I value the ability to have open and honest conversations about any topic (Free Speech) - more than I value the making of a dollar.

Please forgive

[chancellor]

Chance -
Thanks! Honestly - I didnt think of that side of it when making my last post. I value the ability to have open and honest conversations about any topic (Free Speech) - more than I value the making of a dollar.

Please forgive

No forgiveness required. At all. I understand your point and frustration - I mean, who's actually pursuing truthful journalism is a fine and legitimate question and issue. The challenge for those like you - who'd actually like to see that - is that many media outlets are being rewarded for being more slanted, not less.

That said, those who complain about the lack of decorum today should read some of Ben Franklin's and Samuel Adams works. Or some of the other Founding Fathers. I mean...damn.

[revo]

“Tremendously big and tremendously wet — tremendous amounts of water,” said our awesome, intelligent President.

“I think that Puerto Rico was an incredible, unsung success,” he asserted. Yep, Maria only killed 3,000.

Hope you have tremendous umbrellas, North & South Carolina!

[MagSeven]

“Tremendously big and tremendously wet — tremendous amounts of water,” said our awesome, intelligent President.

“I think that Puerto Rico was an incredible, unsung success,” he asserted. Yep, Maria only killed 3,000.

Yep, hope you have tremendous umbrellas, North & South Carolina!

I'm sure Trump will be there with paper towels.

[revo]

And breaking news....Trump diverted $10m that was going to FEMA to ICE....good luck!

[B-Fly]

Pardon, but I beg to differ. The press has always been slanted; go all the way back to Franklin’s work should you so doubt it. Franklin, Jay, Adams, Jefferson, and a host of other founding fathers used and/or owned the “Press” back in the day, and I’d argue their methods for putting forth their views were vitriolic in a way that makes Trump appear to be a calming diplomat.

The concept of a free press was expressly NOT to provide what was perceived as balanced news, it was to allow the freedom for enough views to proliferate such that the best ideas, views, concepts would come to the fore and be recognized. It was also to allow for opposing views to have their own platform.

Absolutely. I agree with this 100%. There is no constitutional obligation or expectation of press impartiality, as such a concept would have been laughable at the time of our founding.

[revo]

It's September 11th!