President Donald Trump

[DMT]

BB, you continue to want to draw attention to how Trump is similar to previous POTUSes. Of course, given the nature of the position, one can point to similarities. I could also point to similarities between myself and Tom Brady, in that we are both males of almost the same age, with similar hair color and complexions. But most of the world, in comparing us, would note the many significant differences between us, not our similarities. Likewise, I think it is important to note what marks Trump as different. Trying to normalize him is dangerous. Trump is not a normal president. He is abhorrent abomination with little regard for the rules on which we've founded our country, the decorum of his office, or the consequences of his words and actions for Others.

For every thing you want to point to that marks him as just another POTUS, I can point to two that mark him as different and worse. Your attempts to point out inconsistencies and hypocrisies in how Democrats respond to Trump would likely be valid in any other context, in relation to anyone else who could have won, as such biases exists naturally within both political parties, and should generally by pointed out. But they do not so neatly apply to Trump, because Trump isn't just another Republican--a fact that even most Republicans on here note. He may sometimes, in the right light, look like one, and occasionally act like one, but he is different, and his is dangerous. If you want me to expand on why, I'd be happy to, but I suspect you could anticipate many of the things I'd say.

Not directing this at BB, but the cognitive dissonance among Republicans--and their increasingly desperate attempts to cover for it--is staggering.

[Hornsby]

In the spirit of Super Bowl Sunday, the delightful tale of how Vladimir Putin got a Super Bowl ring...

The New England Patriots are two wins away from what would be their fifth Super Bowl title in 16 years.

For Patriots owner Robert Kraft, however, winning another championship would bring his Super Bowl ring collection only to four, thanks to one of the strangest mishaps in NFL history.

In 2005, Kraft was on a business trip to Russia and visited Russian President Vladimir Putin. Kraft, carrying his 2004 Super Bowl ring, showed it to Putin, who apparently tried it on and then took it without giving it back.

From the sounds of it, Kraft still hasn't gotten his original ring back. In a video the NFL released on Thursday, Kraft relayed the story, saying:

"[The Super Bowl rings] are all in a drawer except for my third one. The original is in Russia with the president of the country. I happened to be there on a business mission with my friend Sandy Weill. We had just given out our rings. I showed Sandy my ring, and he said, 'Why don't you show it to the president?' And I showed it to him and he put it on, and he sort of just enjoyed it, so he kept it on."


Kraft had a more colorful description of the events back in 2013, with his saying: "I took out the ring and showed it to [Putin], and he put it on and he goes, 'I can kill someone with this ring.' I put my hand out and he put it in his pocket, and three KGB guys got around him and walked out."

The New York Post reported that when the incident originally happened, the Bush administration had asked Kraft, for the sake of US-Russia relations, to say publicly that he gave the ring to Putin as a gift.

After Kraft told his updated version of events in 2013, Putin denied stealing the ring or having any memory of meeting Kraft, but he said he would have a replacement ring made for Kraft.

A decade later, it appears Kraft never got his ring back.

http://www.businessinsider.com/putin-took-robert-kraft-patriots-super-bowl-ring-2017-2

[Bernie Brewer]

BB, you continue to want to draw attention to how Trump is similar to previous POTUSes. Of course, given the nature of the position, one can point to similarities. I could also point to similarities between myself and Tom Brady, in that we are both males of almost the same age, with similar hair color and complexions. But most of the world, in comparing us, would note the many significant differences between us, not our similarities. Likewise, I think it is important to note what marks Trump as different. Trying to normalize him is dangerous. Trump is not a normal president. He is abhorrent abomination with little regard for the rules on which we've founded our country, the decorum of his office, or the consequences of his words and actions for Others.

For every thing you want to point to that marks him as just another POTUS, I can point to two that mark him as different and worse. Your attempts to point out inconsistencies and hypocrisies in how Democrats respond to Trump would likely be valid in any other context, in relation to anyone else who could have won, as such biases exists naturally within both political parties, and should generally by pointed out. But they do not so neatly apply to Trump, because Trump isn't just another Republican--a fact that even most Republicans on here note. He may sometimes, in the right light, look like one, and occasionally act like one, but he is different, and his is dangerous. If you want me to expand on why, I'd be happy to, but I suspect you could anticipate many of the things I'd say.

Again, I'll point out that I am no fan of Trump and I'm not suggesting he is not a very different President so far. He most certainly is. What I'm suggesting is that he is doing what he promised, good or bad, and that all the absolute hand wringing on every front will ultimately result in a softening of the effectiveness of activism against him when the shit really hits the fan. These protests that often turn violent, that many on the left have not denounced, and the calls of Dems in Congress playing into the paranoia will cause people who should be listening to not listen when he does something very very bad for our country.

[Bernie Brewer]

Not directing this at BB, but the cognitive dissonance among Republicans--and their increasingly desperate attempts to cover for it--is staggering.

Many Republicans do not agree with Trump and did not vote for him. I'd appreciate, for one, not being lump with his supporters, not that I'm suggesting you're actually doing that. We're stuck with him at this point and many GOPers are to blame, but I've said before generalizations are typically intellectually dishonest and lazy and more often than not very wrong.

[DMT]

Again, I'll point out that I am no fan of Trump and I'm not suggesting he is not a very different President so far. He most certainly is. What I'm suggesting is that he is doing what he promised, good or bad, and that all the absolute hand wringing on every front will ultimetly result in a softening of the effectiveness of activism against him when the shit really hits the fan. These protests that often turn violent, that many on the left have not denounced, and the calls of Dems in Congress playing into the paranoia will cause people who should be listening to not listen when he does something very very bad for our country.

But he has already done very bad things for our country. It makes no sense to me to sit back and wait for something 'very very bad'. Each bad thing that he gets away with just gives him more confidence to push even worse things forward.

[DMT]

Many Republicans do not agree with Trump and did not vote for him. I'd appreciate, for one, not being lump with his supporters, not that I'm suggesting you're actually doing that. We're stuck with him at this point and many GOPers are to blame, but I've said before generalizations are typically intellectually dishonest and lazy and more often than not very wrong.

But the large majority of Republicans did vote for him, and the leaders of his party stand and applaud when he advocates and/or signs legislation that they do not support. They are deluded if they think this strategy will somehow win them favor with Trump. The moment they stand in his way, he'll throw them under a bus without a second's hesitation.

[DMT]

But the large majority of Republicans did vote for him, and the leaders of his party stand and applaud when he advocates and/or signs legislation that they do not support. They are deluded if they think this strategy will somehow win them favor with Trump. The moment they stand in his way, he'll throw them under a bus without a second's hesitation.

Perfect example.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865672567/Mitt-Romney-No-regrets-about-criticizing-Trump-but-time-to-recognize-his-strong-start.html

"Mitt Romney said Friday he has no regrets about criticizing then candidate Donald Trump in a stinging speech last year but now sees the new president as having "obviously gotten off to a very strong start."

[Hornsby]

Again, I'll point out that I am no fan of Trump and I'm not suggesting he is not a very different President so far. He most certainly is. What I'm suggesting is that he is doing what he promised, good or bad, and that all the absolute hand wringing on every front will ultimetly result in a softening of the effectiveness of activism against him when the shit really hits the fan. These protests that often turn violent, that many on the left have not denounced, and the calls of Dems in Congress playing into the paranoia will cause people who should be listening to not listen when he does something very very bad for our country.

The bold section is absolutely untrue...the vast majority of the protests have been non-violent, without arrests or incidents. Millions of people have been marching, peacefully, and have managed to be heard. The only violent protests that I've heard of have been the Berkeley protests against Milo Yiannopoulos...he may be a total asshole, but if someone wants to pay him for a speech, he deserves to give it and not be threatened. Strongly denounced, yes, but not with violence.

And the protests will continue, and they'll continue to grow, because they're making a difference. It's not going to go away, and it's not going to soften...as long as Trump continues with outrageous EO's, interviews, and yes, tweets that undermine the political system in this country, the opposition will continue to be strong.

[Sour Masher]

Even as his VP backpedals and tries to downplay Trump's attack on the judge that put a hold on his ban, Trump doubles down on his attack on Twitter, stating: "Just cannot believe a judge would put our country in such peril. If something happens blame him and court system. People pouring in. Bad!" I added the bolding.

What is disturbing to me about that Tweet is that 1. there is no evidence his travel ban makes our country safer, and 2. as I've argued repeatedly, I fear Trump himself is making our country more prone to attack, and his preemptive deflecting to not just the judiciary but to a specific individual is scary. Given the fervency of some of his fan base, this seems like it could be a dangerous thing for him to do. Not quite as dangerous as when he implied 2nd Amendment advocates should murder HRC, but still dangerous and inappropriate.

[Bernie Brewer]

But he has already done very bad things for our country. It makes no sense to me to sit back and wait for something 'very very bad'. Each bad thing that he gets away with just gives him more confidence to push even worse things forward.

I would suggest to you that is your opinion that he's already done very bad things for the country. I'm not saying I disagree, but things are never as good as they seem not as bad. And, things can always get worse. That's the point I'm making.

[Bernie Brewer]

But the large majority of Republicans did vote for him, and the leaders of his party stand and applaud when he advocates and/or signs legislation that they do not support. They are deluded if they think this strategy will somehow win them favor with Trump. The moment they stand in his way, he'll throw them under a bus without a second's hesitation.

So when both Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell come out and denounce he's comments about the US kills people too so we're no better than Putun, that's rolling over and applauding? Hmm. When John McCain pushes back at some stupid thing he says, that's applauding and capitulating. Parsing a quote from Romney on a specific comments implies tacit support? Ok, then. Carry on.

[Hodor]

I'm going to say one thing.

You either stand for something or you stand for nothing.

Trump apologists who excuse his Idiocracy because it's what he promised are no better than the Hillary supporters who continue to back her even though she's an unethical, lying unapologetic POS.

[Bernie Brewer]

I'm going to say one thing.

You either stand for something or you stand for nothing.

Trump apologists who excuse his Idiocracy because it's what he promised are no better than the Hillary supporters who continue to back her even though she's an unethical, lying unapologetic POS.

If this is aimed at me, I'm am not a Trump apologist. That may be what you're inferring but I am a realist. This, sadly, ain't nothing yet. New York Times article says Trump didn't know what he was signing when he added Bannin to the NSC. That is scary news!

[Hodor]

If this is aimed at me, I'm am not a Trump apologist. That may be what you're inferring but I am a realist. This, sadly, ain't nothing yet. New York Times article says Trump didn't know what he was signing when he added Bannin to the NSC. That is scary news!

It was aimed at everyone

[DMT]

So when both Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell come out and denounce he's comments about the US kills people too so we're no better than Putun, that's rolling over and applauding? Hmm. When John McCain pushes back at some stupid thing he says, that's applauding and capitulating. Parsing a quote from Romney on a specific comments implies tacit support? Ok, then. Carry on.

Ok, they've made some non-supportive statements and I've tried calling McCain to show my support, but let's see them actually start challenging Trump's decisions. Seeing arguably his most vocal critic during the campaign calling the past two weeks 'a very strong start' doesn't inspire much confidence but I'll concede that was a weak example. I hope you are right and that some Republicans will start pushing back more forcefully but I just see how they've acted during my adult lifetime and thus have very little hope left when it comes to Republicans doing the right thing.