President Donald Trump

[B-Fly]

Are they execs? Or rank and file worker bees? Cuz the impact of the tax law is probably going to be very different for the 2 tiers of workers.

I think there are a lot of people who say they love the tax cuts prior to knowing or without understanding what the personal tax impact is/will be for them.

[Hornsby]

I am a Trump supporter. Just like I would be a Hilary supporter if she had won. Also an Obama supporter and whoever the next President will be.

Our definitions of supporter may be much different.

That's different, it sounds like you support the office, not the man who's sitting in it. Do you support Trump the man, and his actions?

[Gregg]

That's different, it sounds like you support the office, not the man who's sitting in it. Do you support Trump the man, and his actions?

I was very vocal about hating this last election and what politics has become in general.

Do I like Trump's personality, nope. I hope he has great success while in office.

By the way the new tax laws have kicked me in the nads. I no longer get to write off business mileage. I lose any benefit I have and it costs me about an extra 140 bucks a week.

That one really stings.

[revo]

I do agree with Bernie, I'd love to hear from Trump supporters just why they still support him...

My college buddies and I have a text thread ongoing, and it's an interesting dynamic. 7 of us, all college educated and doing well in life, late-40ish white dudes. All from NYC or Long Island. Rarely discussed politics while in school (although me and one of the Dems ran the school newspaper). 4 Republicans, 2 Dems, and me, the lone Independent. The three of us (Dems+Ind) are liberal; the Repubs are socially liberal, but support traditional conservative values.

Repub breakdown:

Repub 1, auto mechanic shop owner - Gun nut, hugely pro-NRA, hugely anti-(illegal) immigrant, anti-welfare, anti-BLM. Thinks the system is taken advantage of by immigrants and the feeble, and coddled by Dems. Hated Obama for "being weak and divisive" and "too nice," hated Hilary for "lying." Extreme Hilary hater. Voted Trump, wants a "strong leader," doesn't really care that he's an asshole or insulted anyone. Thinks the media is completely out to get Trump and thinks they give him no credit for any success. Has wavered a bit on his support, would probably vote for another GOPer, but would never vote Democrat, so if it's Trump in '20, that's his vote.

Repub 2, career Wall Streeter - hated Hilary, not sure why. Supported Trump, but when it came down to brass tacks, couldn't find it in him to actually vote for him and voted for Stein; big supporter of Israel; thinks Obama blew it on foreign policy with Syria, the red line, Korea, etc.; wants entitlement reform; Doesn't give Obama any credit for the rebounding financial situation during financial crisis; claims to be a fiscal conservative and free trader, yet was in favor of the tax cuts and tariffs; claims to now believe Trump is an asshole and wishes a new GOP president were in place, but would almost certainly support Trump -- even if he didn't ultimately vote for him -- if he ran again in '20.

Repub 3, attorney - hated Obama and Hilary. Unsure why, but felt Obama was a "weak" and "bad" president. Doesn't care at all if Trump is an asshole, cares more about the policy being put in place, although he does feel Trump is indeed an asshole; also feels the MSM is against Trump; would also vote for a different GOPer, but also would certainly vote Trump if he's the '20 nominee.

Repub 4, bond broker - religious sort, moreso now that he's a widower. Sees both sides. Voted Trump, but he's lost him. Would probably edge towards the GOP due to religious views, so he's a borderline Trump voter in '20. Would probably love Pence, lol.


So there ya go, four Trumpies from '16 who would still likely vote or support Trump in '20.

[Mithrandir]

My college buddies and I have a text thread ongoing, and it's an interesting dynamic. 7 of us, all college educated and doing well in life, late-40ish white dudes. All from NYC or Long Island. Rarely discussed politics while in school (although me and one of the Dems ran the school newspaper). 4 Republicans, 2 Dems, and me, the lone Independent. The three of us (Dems+Ind) are liberal; the Repubs are socially liberal, but support traditional conservative values.

Repub breakdown:

Repub 1, auto mechanic shop owner - Gun nut, hugely pro-NRA, hugely anti-(illegal) immigrant, anti-welfare, anti-BLM. Thinks the system is taken advantage of by immigrants and the feeble, and coddled by Dems. Hated Obama for "being weak and divisive" and "too nice," hated Hilary for "lying." Extreme Hilary hater. Voted Trump, wants a "strong leader," doesn't really care that he's an asshole or insulted anyone. Thinks the media is completely out to get Trump and thinks they give him no credit for any success. Has wavered a bit on his support, would probably vote for another GOPer, but would never vote Democrat, so if it's Trump in '20, that's his vote.

Repub 2, career Wall Streeter - hated Hilary, not sure why. Supported Trump, but when it came down to brass tacks, couldn't find it in him to actually vote for him and voted for Stein; big supporter of Israel; thinks Obama blew it on foreign policy with Syria, the red line, Korea, etc.; wants entitlement reform; Doesn't give Obama any credit for the rebounding financial situation during financial crisis; claims to now believe Trump is an asshole and wishes a new GOP president were in place, but would almost certainly support Trump -- even if he didn't ultimately vote for him -- if he ran again in '20.

Repub 3, attorney - hated Obama and Hilary. Unsure why, but felt Obama was a "weak" and "bad" president. Doesn't care at all if Trump is an asshole, cares more about the policy being put in place, although he does feel Trump is indeed an asshole; also feels the MSM is against Trump; would also vote for a different GOPer, but also would certainly vote Trump if he's the '20 nominee.

Repub 4, bond broker - religious sort, moreso now that he's a widower. Sees both sides. Voted Trump, but he's lost him. Would probably edge towards the GOP due to religious views, so he's a borderline Trump voter in '20. Would probably love Pence, lol.


So there ya go, four Trumpies from '16 who would still likely vote or support Trump in '20.

Do you believe that any of their views are driven by bigotry of some sort?

[Mithrandir]

Similar to Revo's texting group, I have a group of 7 friends in a texting group. We have all been friends from at least high school, some going back to 1st grade.

All 8 of us cannot stand Trump in any way, shape, or form. Not surprisingly none of us are racist, homophobic, misogynistic (anything else) bigots.

[revo]

Do you believe that any of their views are driven by bigotry of some sort?

No I don't. But I do know other Trump supporters, including a few within my own family, who could certainly be seen as being "closet" racists.

[Mithrandir]

No I don't. But I do know other Trump supporters, including a few within my own family, who could certainly be seen as being "closet" racists.

My future son-in-law and his family fit that description also.

[ironfist]

No I don't. But I do know other Trump supporters, including a few within my own family, who could certainly be seen as being "closet" racists.

I know a lot of Trump supporters who probably wouldn't consider themselves racists per se, but likely think that racism isn't a problem and is being overblown by the leftist, agenda-driven media. These are the kind of people who don't mind off-color jokes and will occasionally say things like "black people are lazy" and give me an anecdote about one guy who works at his office as proof. So not exactly full-blown KKK racists here, but still...

I have known other Trump supporters who started out questioning him and preferred other Republican candidates. One of them has become a full-blown Trump diehard, posting how proud he is that his son is wearing Trump t-shirts and hat. The other is still hesitant and critical against some things Trump does. However, he still posts a lot of memes that are anti-anti-Trump (if that makes sense). It feels to me like he is similar to many that post here who don't consider themselves Trump supporters but feel like they are getting attacked or lumped in just for still being conservative or Republican.

[Bernie Brewer]

Yet Obama's popularity ratings remained high throughout the 2016 election cycle, so I'm curious about your thought that GOPers were never going to vote for Hillary because they were too angry at Obama. Do you think Trump could have beaten Obama in 2016 if Obama were constitutionally able (and willing) to seek a third term? I don't think so, and I think Hillary hate, driven in part by Hillary herself and her missteps (as both a campaigner and a public figure), in part by the decades of anti-Hillary tin foil hat nonsense, in part by Russian-led social media efforts, in part by Comey, all magnified by general misogyny, played a much larger role in the 2016 outcome than Obama hate. Assuming Obama's popularity was close to accurately polled, Trump's general election victory would seem to be less attributable to people seeking someone "different" (although that and the math of a deep GOP primary field with too many conventional Republicans splitting support may have driven his primary success), and more to Hillary herself and the public's reactions to her.

B-Fly, I have a lot of respect for you and I’d trust you with my answers, but I think it’s time for me to bow out of this thread for awhile. No ran me out, so no one should feel as though they did. It’s just kind of draining.

[revo]

Do you believe that any of their views are driven by bigotry of some sort?

I will say this, though, as sparked by Ironfist’s comments. Three of those four believe African Americans are pretty much on equal footing with whites, that we all have the same shot at schools, jobs, money, etc. That’s primarily why the anti-BLM guy is like that, he doesn’t understand that they’re not. And yeah, also like in Ironfist’s post, he uses local one-off examples. When we discussed welfare reform, he said the local deli owner told him how some use food stamps to buy non-approved items, andso that set him off on how all food stamp recipients are corrupt (but never thought it was actually the deli owners, lol).

[Gregg]

. These are the kind of people who don't mind off-color jokes and will occasionally say things like "black people are lazy" and give me an anecdote about one guy who works at his office as proof.

Do you not see how this is the same statement?

Labeling a group without recognition for the individuals.

[Gregg]

Similar to Revo's texting group, I have a group of 7 friends in a texting group. We have all been friends from at least high school, some going back to 1st grade.

All 8 of us cannot stand Trump in any way, shape, or form. Not surprisingly none of us are racist, homophobic, misogynistic (anything else) bigots.

Maybe if you dig deeper you would find that Republicans prefer their shit candidate over the Democratic shit candidate and vise versa.

[Teenwolf]

Do you not see how this is the same statement?

Labeling a group without recognition for the individuals.

So talking in broad strokes about racist tendencies in right-wingers is not okay... why? Because you claim it's the same thing as racism and bigotry? Are you serious?! He wasn't even talking about Trump supporters in general, he was talking about the ones that he knows, and trying to quantify their level of racism... and that's still not okay, to talk about the Trump supporters that he knows? Ridiculous.

Wow... White fragility sure is peaking in the Sports Bar these days (as I'm sure saying this will tick off a bunch of folks here). As always, claims of racism draw more outrage from conservative folks than real life racist statements or actions. Gregg, why are you playing devil's advocate to defend racists that ironfist knows and you've never met?

[Gregg]

So talking in broad strokes about racist tendencies in right-wingers is not okay... why? Because you claim it's the same thing as racism and bigotry? Are you serious?! He wasn't even talking about Trump supporters in general, he was talking about the ones that he knows, and trying to quantify their level of racism... and that's still not okay, to talk about the Trump supporters that he knows? Ridiculous.

Wow... White fragility sure is peaking in the Sports Bar these days (as I'm sure saying this will tick off a bunch of folks here). As always, claims of racism draw more outrage from conservative folks than real life racist statements or actions. Gregg, why are you playing devil's advocate to defend racists that ironfist knows and you've never met?

No.

His response was in response to Trump supporters being bigots. The line is Trump= Republican= bigot.

This is the broad stroke that is offensive.

Are some Republicans bigots absolutely. Are some Democrats bigots absolutely.

I am not defending racists. I am tired of losing RJ members to the attacks and ganging up on those that have any minority position on any topic in the Sports Bar.