President Donald Trump

[Redbirds Fan]

well, I like to read constructive conversation!


the lack of official party ID among so many I do find amusing. I have, in Presidential elections, voted for 4 Ds, 2 Is, and 4 Rs (I listed them alphabetically). I have never voted for anyone twice.

I wish I had a link, but I once read an interesting survey that estimated the actual "independent" vote, particularly for President, is about 6 percent. that is, people who have no idea which party candidate they would choose in the next election.

now, there is nothing automatically virtuous about independents. some omniscient being could determine that the wisest voter always or almost always votes for one particular party. I can buy that. my only modest gripe is that if someone has voted for the same party in Presidential elections for the last 20 years, I have a hard time seeing them as "independent."

Granted that there may be a few who really do consider both sides, but in the end, this one party has won the day with them each time - but maybe not next time. but that group sure as hell ain't 40 percent.

lastly, I think Facebook, Fox, and MSNBC - plus the demise of journalism - have created a perfect storm of increasing ignorance. I'll be damned if I know how to change that course, but I ain't never been on Facebook (yet; I miss out on family stuff and will joThin at some point) and I am still plugging away after 35 years, like one of those post-WW II Japanese soldiers in the jungle. The fight is still worth it.

I think you guys can grow the spirit I see here today - even though it's not easy. maybe one way is noting where a typical left/right debate topic has you not as much on the "obvious side" for you as others might think. that can build camaraderie and understanding.

The states in which I have lived and voted do not require you to "register" as an "R" or a "D". You can vote in either party's primary, you just have to pick one. If you vote in the primary, you can't switch for a run-off. And you can change from year to year. So while I have self-identified as a Dem, I've never actually done any paperwork. So, the term "card-carrying" is just a figure of speech where I am from.

They just ask you which primary you want to vote in when you walk up on election day. Your voter registration card is silent on the issue.

EDIT: And I agree with what I think you are saying, that true independents are exceedingly rare.

[Judge Jude]

thanks as always, Redbirds.

I have never been eligible to vote in a primary - but again, that says nothing about my voting acumen. it is what it is, and it isn't what it isn't.

[Hornsby]

This is as searing, and sad, a commentary on what the world now thinks of the US. It's two minutes and 20 seconds long...take the time. I wish I could post the actual video, but I can't find a direct link to do so...

http://www.abc.net.au/insiders/content/2016/s4698927.htm

[GwynnInTheHall]

This is as searing, and sad, a commentary on what the world now thinks of the US. It's two minutes and 20 seconds long...take the time. I wish I could post the actual video, but I can't find a direct link to do so...

http://www.abc.net.au/insiders/conte...6/s4698927.htm

I saw this earlier, it is, as you said, a pretty sad commentary on where we are right now.

[nullnor]

i say we elect the musician henry rollins for president. that would be cool.

[The Feral Slasher]

All kidding aside, it does bother me how so much of the right, especially the gun-toting evangelical right, is embracing Putin.

I graduated college in the 70s, having studied a lot of Russian/Soviet history and political philosophy. There was a lot of U.S. foreign policy through the decades that I thought was wrong-headed. But I always believed that Russia: a) was our sworn enemy, b) could not be trusted to do anything unless it was in their best interest, and c) believed their destiny was the destruction of the United States through whatever means available to them.

Their leaders think differently than ours. They see the whole table, and they play the long game. That sounds cliche, but it is fact of history for them. Individual lives mean nothing in the grand scheme. Think about how they battled the Germans in WWII. They threw millions of men, women and children at advancing troops, essentially to slow them down until winter could stop them.

They have an economy the size of Italy, yet they remain one of the top players on the world stage. Their country is run by thieves, yet they can demand a meeting with the President of the United States. Yeah, they have nukes. But that is not what makes them so dangerous. Putin knows that intelligence and counterintelligence can be more effective than ICBMs. They are much cheaper, easier to develop, and simpler to maintain and upgrade. He is truly the spymaster.

The sooner the administration figures out who we are dealing with, and the quicker portions of the right get over its infatuation with this thug, the better off we will be.

The 1980s are now calling to ask for their foreign policy back because you know, the Cold War has been over for 20 years

[Fresno Bob]

This is as searing, and sad, a commentary on what the world now thinks of the US. It's two minutes and 20 seconds long...take the time. I wish I could post the actual video, but I can't find a direct link to do so...

http://www.abc.net.au/insiders/conte...6/s4698927.htm

super grim....i tweeted it to trump to ask him if he could provide a picture of any other US president sitting by himself at a g20 summit while the meetings were going on

[Hornsby]

Honest to God...really? So now we've got admissions from both Kushner and Junior that they met with the Russians...and Junior even admits that it was supposed to be about messing with the Democratic campaign.

Donald Trump Jr. says he met with Russian lawyer in 2016 because he was offered information helpful to his father’s campaign

The president’s son said in a statement Sunday that a Russian lawyer with whom he met in June 2016 claimed she could provide him potentially damaging information about his father’s Democratic opponent, Hillary Clinton.

At the meeting, which also included Trump’s son-in-law Jared Kushner and Trump’s then-campaign chairman Paul J. Manafort, the Russian lawyer opened by saying she knew about Russians funding the Democratic National Committee and Clinton, the statement said.

Donald Jr. said her statements were “vague, ambiguous and made no sense” and that she then changed the subject to discuss a prohibition that the Russian government placed on the adoption of Russian children as retaliation for sanctions imposed by Congress in 2012.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/presidents-son-met-with-russian-lawyer-during-presidential-campaign-after-being-promised-information-helpful-to-fathers-effort/2017/07/09/90c0e3e8-64e9-11e7-8eb5-cbccc2e7bfbf_story.html?utm_term=.622002a9bbc6&wpisrc=al_alert-national&wpmk=1

[Redbirds Fan]

The 1980s are now calling to ask for their foreign policy back because you know, the Cold War has been over for 20 years

I agree that the historical period we knew as the Cold War ended, over 25 years ago, at the same time Vladimir Putin retired from the military and entered politics.

My post didn't suggest a particular foreign policy, but instead stated what should be one of our basic assumptions should be when creating or 'redefining' a foreign policy. That basic assumption is that we cannot trust the Russians.

One example of bad policy, which forgets that basic assumption, would be the idea that we should join with Russia to create some bil-ateral cyber-security initiative.

[The Feral Slasher]

I agree that the historical period we knew as the Cold War ended, over 25 years ago, at the same time Vladimir Putin retired from the military and entered politics.

My post didn't suggest a particular foreign policy, but instead stated what should be one of our basic assumptions should be when creating or 'redefining' a foreign policy. That basic assumption is that we cannot trust the Russians.

One example of bad policy, which forgets that basic assumption, would be the idea that we should join with Russia to create some bil-ateral cyber-security initiative.

your post said you always believed Russia was our sworn enemy who felt their destiny was to destroy us. which is pretty much the exact opposite of what Obama's quote implied and what other Dems were saying 4 years ago. if u want to believe the quote referred to a particular time period rather than our relationship go ahead

[Redbirds Fan]

your post said you always believed Russia was our sworn enemy who felt their destiny was to destroy us. which is pretty much the exact opposite of what Obama's quote implied and what other Dems were saying 4 years ago. if u want to believe the quote referred to a particular time period rather than our relationship go ahead

I don't know what Obama quote you are referring to. And I don't agree with Obama on everything, or what other Dems were saying 4 years ago.

What happened after the fall of the Soviet Union is a matter of great debate. Some believe that Russia decided to forego its dreams of global hegemony, and that the United States became more aggressive in pursuing its own, which eventually drew Russia out of its hibernation. I think the bear was only resting, licking its wounds, waiting for the right time.

Hey, if your point is to say that Putin is our buddy, that's fine, you can believe that. If your point is to say bad on me because I disagreed with Obama on something, I'm sorry, but that doesn't sting. If your point from that last post is something else, I just missed it.

[The Feral Slasher]

I don't know what Obama quote you are referring to. And I don't agree with Obama on everything, or what other Dems were saying 4 years ago.

What happened after the fall of the Soviet Union is a matter of great debate. Some believe that Russia decided to forego its dreams of global hegemony, and that the United States became more aggressive in pursuing its own, which eventually drew Russia out of its hibernation. I think the bear was only resting, licking its wounds, waiting for the right time.

Hey, if your point is to say that Putin is our buddy, that's fine, you can believe that. If your point is to say bad on me because I disagreed with Obama on something, I'm sorry, but that doesn't sting. If your point from that last post is something else, I just missed it.

The Obama quote is "The 1980s are now calling to ask for their foreign policy back because you know, the Cold War has been over for 20 years". And yes you missed my point, but I'm ok with that, I'll just go back to my Putin fan club meeting and drop in here occasionally when I have time.

[nots]

The Obama quote is "The 1980s are now calling to ask for their foreign policy back because you know, the Cold War has been over for 20 years". And yes you missed my point, but I'm ok with that, I'll just go back to my Putin fan club meeting and drop in here occasionally when I have time.

Very few posts actually make me lol, but yours did. Well done

[The Feral Slasher]

Very few posts actually make me lol, but yours did. Well done

At first I wasn't interested in joining, but once I learned that there is no middle ground and you have to either believe Putin is hell bent on wiping America off the face of the earth or believe he is an American hero I just decided to side with Donald and Vlad. I haven't looked back.

[baldgriff]

Yep - there is no in between - its one or the other......