*** VD 15 Commentary Thread ***

[heyelander]

You're a vegetarian, or you just don't like barbecued meat?

After reading his views on our great President, I think he is a communist.

[heyelander]

tldr; what's the summary

Poker is good for your health and career.

[jmaeroff]

I live in TX and spent quite a bit of time in the Hill Country.

I don't like BBQ.

(ducks)

You're a vegetarian, or you just don't like barbecued meat?

[Bene Futuis]

I wonder if I shoulda picked one of those dudes instead of the Torre / McCormick combo. I had Vance typed in for a while and then backed out.

[johnnya24]

tldr; what's the summary

Dazzy Vance was a late bloomer.

[johnnya24]

https://tht.fangraphs.com/the-improb...f-dazzy-vance/

This is helpful

[jmaeroff]

"V is for Vance,
The Dodgers' own Dazzy;
None of his rivals
Could throw as fast as he."
— Ogden Nash

[Ken]

https://tht.fangraphs.com/the-improb...f-dazzy-vance/

tldr; what's the summary

[heyelander]

https://tht.fangraphs.com/the-improbable-career-of-dazzy-vance/

By the time he reached thirty years of age, Charles Arthur Vance had pitched in 11 games for two different big league teams, and was winless in four decisions, with an ERA of 4.91.

….

“Somewhere in between my stay with St. Joe and my early experience with the Yankees, something went wrong with my right arm,” said Vance. “I no longer could throw hard, and it hurt like the dickens every time I threw.” The Yankees held onto Vance, but he bounced around the minor leagues: Columbus, Toledo, Memphis, Rochester. In between, he got one more chance at the big time, pitching two games with the Yankees as a 27-year-old in 1918. After giving up five runs on nine hits in 2.1 innings, New York finally gave up on him. Vance was sold to Sacramento of the Pacific Coast League in 1919.

After Sacramento, Vance went back to Memphis and ultimately, he landed in New Orleans. Sometime before his thirtieth birthday, fate smiled on Dazzy under unusual circumstances. During a typical late-night poker game with some teammates, Vance won a hand. As he went to rake the pot, he banged his arm on the edge of the table. The pain in his arm, which had been chronic for several years, turned into a sharp pain that necessitated emergency surgery.

As Bill James noted in his Historical Baseball Abstract, no one knows the exact procedure performed by this random New Orleans doctor. James speculated that bone chips and debris were cleared out of the elbow. Whatever the doctor did, the pain was gone and Vance could suddenly throw hard again.

After winning 21 games with New Orleans the following year, Vance was sold to Brooklyn along with catcher Hank DeBerry. Brooklyn actually had no interest in Dazzy, and when New Orleans insisted that Vance be included in the deal, Brooklyn team president Charley Ebbets nearly nixed the deal. Ultimately, Ebbets gave in and Brooklyn sent $10,000 to New Orleans in exchange for the two players. Vance always maintained that the deal was $9,000 for DeBerry, $1,000 for him.

All of a sudden, Dazzy was back in the big leagues at age 31, an overnight success that was more than a decade in the making. He was outstanding from day one, winning 18 games as a rookie, with a 3.70 ERA. Despite striking out hitters at what would be the lowest rate of his career (4.9 per nine innings), Vance led the National League in strikeouts.

Thus began a run that no one could have anticipated. Vance led the league in strikeouts in each of his first seven seasons in the league. In 1924, at the age of 33, Vance was the best pitcher in baseball. That season was the greatest of his career; he won the first official National League MVP award by going 28-6 with a 2.16 ERA, 174 ERA+, and 10.4 bWAR. Perhaps most impressively, Vance led the league with 262 strikeouts, three times as many hitters as any other pitcher in the NL was able to strike out, other than Burleigh Grimes. (Grimes whiffed only 135 batters.)

[johnnya24]

I live in TX and spent quite a bit of time in the Hill Country.

I don't like BBQ.

(ducks)

This is not helpful.

[Ken]

No, that's the thing. For all I know they had great BBQ! (Any Canadians on here?) But it would surprise me.

I live in TX and spent quite a bit of time in the Hill Country.

I don't like BBQ.

(ducks)

[jmaeroff]

A lot about the early 80's Toronto BBQ scene?

No, that's the thing. For all I know they had great BBQ! (Any Canadians on here?) But it would surprise me.

[johnnya24]

Upshaw was born & raised in the Texas Hill Country. I imagine him being pretty disappointed in the early-80's Toronto BBQ scene. But what the hell do I know.

A lot about the early 80's Toronto BBQ scene?

[Ken]

But what the hell do I know.

You know that Upshaw was born & raised in the Texas Hill Country.

[jmaeroff]

Upshaw was born & raised in the Texas Hill Country. I imagine him being pretty disappointed in the early-80's Toronto BBQ scene. But what the hell do I know.