Official Postseason Discussion Thread

[Sour Masher]

Bumgarner's velocity and location both improved after that first inning. His contract looks like quite the bargain for the Giants now at $52 million over the next 5 years.

I know this won't happen, and it isn't like bad players ever give back money if they underperform a contract, but if I am the owner of the Giants, I am giving Bumgarner a better deal after what he just did. I'd do it knowing that this series may end up ruining him. Bumgarner just put that whole team on his back and carried them to a WS win. He was as valuable to that team this postseason as any player has ever been to a team. He deserves some kind of financial performance bonus for it. In a sport without a salary cap, I'd give him that performance bonus. If you have to justify it from a business standpoint, maybe doing that sends a message to players to come and give it all in SF, because you'll be taken care of if you leave it all on the field. All I know is that this postseason alone by Bumgarner was probably worth 52 million. If he doesn't pitch another inning for them over the net 5 years, his contract was still a great one for the Giants.

Again, I know the opposite never happens. There are dozens of horrible contracts out there, 100s of millions of wasted salary on bums, but that is all the more reason to pay Bumgarner, who is the opposite of a bum. He just did more for his team in a month than many guys slated to make more than Bumgarner over the next 5 years will do for the rest of their contract (just looking at the Dodger's roster yields a few names that fit that description).

[The Dane]

I know this won't happen, and it isn't like bad players ever give back money if they underperform a contract, but if I am the owner of the Giants, I am giving Bumgarner a better deal after what he just did. I'd do it knowing that this series may end up ruining him. Bumgarner just put that whole team on his back and carried them to a WS win. He was as valuable to that team this postseason as any player has ever been to a team. He deserves some kind of financial performance bonus for it. In a sport without a salary cap, I'd give him that performance bonus. If you have to justify it from a business standpoint, maybe doing that sends a message to players to come and give it all in SF, because you'll be taken care of if you leave it all on the field. All I know is that this postseason alone by Bumgarner was probably worth 52 million. If he doesn't pitch another inning for them over the net 5 years, his contract was still a great one for the Giants.

Again, I know the opposite never happens. There are dozens of horrible contracts out there, 100s of millions of wasted salary on bums, but that is all the more reason to pay Bumgarner, who is the opposite of a bum. He just did more for his team in a month than many guys slated to make more than Bumgarner over the next 5 years will do for the rest of their contract (just looking at the Dodger's roster yields a few names that fit that description).

I hear you, but the reason players sign contracts as Bumgarner did is that they are trying to dismiss risk. If he went down (or may yet still) with a Tommy John injury in the last couple of years, then that contract would look more fair. Both the team and the player take a risk when they sign a deal like that. Right now, it looks like a bargain for the Giants, but that could change very quickly. The Giants often take the long view on these things, and they reward their heroes (see Huff, Aubrey and Scutaro, Marco) and I could see Panda and Morse both returning for 2015, likely on contracts that will shackle the team somehow.

[TranaGreg]

Nate Silver: Send Alex Gordon

It would have been close. Alex Gordon might have scored, particularly if he’d been in the mindset to do so all along. Or maybe not. I’m sure there will be Zapruder-film-type breakdowns, and I’ll look forward to seeing them. It would have been one hell of a moment: Gordon, 220 pounds, who looks like he could have been a strong safety at the University of Nebraska, bearing down on Buster Posey, the catcher whose season-ending injury in 2011 helped inspire baseball’s home-plate collisions rule.

[Hornsby]

Nate Silver: Send Alex Gordon

Except that 220 pound "strong safety" would have had to come into the plate on tippy toes to try to get around Posey as long as he had the ball. There would have been no play for the ages, no hell of a moment that we'll forever remember, in large part because of the political pushing from the Giants manager. Maybe his greatest feat as a manger was to squeeze another title out of this bunch, with a not so little assist from maneuverings that happened almost a year ago, far from the field of play.

And Bumgartner was nails, as everyone has already said...he's the one who should have been the game winner, pitching 5 innings when most thought him capable of 2-3 at best.

[onejayhawk]

Reggie Jackson?

Even that.

Nate Silver: Send Alex Gordon

I was going to post this. :grumble:

J

[The Dane]

Except that 220 pound "strong safety" would have had to come into the plate on tippy toes to try to get around Posey as long as he had the ball. There would have been no play for the ages, no hell of a moment that we'll forever remember, in large part because of the political pushing from the Giants manager. Maybe his greatest feat as a manger was to squeeze another title out of this bunch, with a not so little assist from maneuverings that happened almost a year ago, far from the field of play.

Wait. So, Bochy is responsible for the fact that we missed a "hell of a moment" play that... didn't... even... happen?

[Fresno Bob]

Except that 220 pound "strong safety" would have had to come into the plate on tippy toes to try to get around Posey as long as he had the ball. There would have been no play for the ages, no hell of a moment that we'll forever remember, in large part because of the political pushing from the Giants manager. Maybe his greatest feat as a manger was to squeeze another title out of this bunch, with a not so little assist from maneuverings that happened almost a year ago, far from the field of play.

And Bumgartner was nails, as everyone has already said...he's the one who should have been the game winner, pitching 5 innings when most thought him capable of 2-3 at best.

My plane took off from Australia in the 6th inning, so I've only seen video today, but if Gordon had been hustling out of the box like Hunter Pence does, he would have scored easy, he doesn't even seem to kick it up a gear until he's around 2nd and the Perez ball kicking....

[Hornsby]

Wait. So, Bochy is responsible for the fact that we missed a "hell of a moment" play that... didn't... even... happen?

Got it in one! Yes, we missed a moment that could/should have happened, but didn't, because of the rule change.

[virgonomic]

Awesome Royals kid wore his Shields t-shirt today. What a trooper. I believe in sympathizing with people when their team is eliminated (as opposed to rubbing it in). Someone sympathized with me a few years ago and I found it very classy.

[Fresno Bob]

Awesome Royals kid wore his Shields t-shirt today. What a trooper. I believe in sympathizing with people when their team is eliminated (as opposed to rubbing it in). Someone sympathized with me a few years ago and I found it very classy.

hey, doesn't that kid owe me money????? I keed, I keed!

Nothing to hang his head about, the Royals look teed up for a string of post-season appearances. The youngsters on that pitching staff look like they are only going to get better

[madducks]

My plane took off from Australia in the 6th inning, so I've only seen video today, but if Gordon had been hustling out of the box like Hunter Pence does, he would have scored easy, he doesn't even seem to kick it up a gear until he's around 2nd and the Perez ball kicking....

My thoughts exactly. That ball hung up in the air so long before the short hop that Gordon could have easily been around first before it landed.

[The Dane]

Got it in one! Yes, we missed a moment that could/should have happened, but didn't, because of the rule change.

So, you're saying that Gordon didn't run because Bochy got the rule changed? He didn't go for it because there couldn't be a great play at the plate?

[Pogues]

So, you're saying that Gordon didn't run because Bochy got the rule changed? He didn't go for it because there couldn't be a great play at the plate?

Boggles the mind, doesn't it?

[Hornsby]

So, you're saying that Gordon didn't run because Bochy got the rule changed? He didn't go for it because there couldn't be a great play at the plate?

I'm saying that there's a possibility that's exactly what happened...would you want to make the last out of the WS on a play that's extremely chancy at best? Made even more chancy because you can't really initiate any contact with the catcher for fear of being called out? It may have been a coin flip's chance last year, this year the odds are tilted distinctly in the favor of the catcher....IF he has the ball. And on a play like that it certainly would have been bang-bang...and BTW, I'm certainly not the only one who's speculated this scenario.

Alex Gordon probably wouldn’t have scored if he’d rounded third on his crazy, madhouse sprint around the bases with two outs in the bottom of the ninth inning in Game 7 of the World Series, but it would have been a lot cooler if he’d tried.

After hitting a line-drive single that skipped past Gregor Blanco, then slipped out of the grasp of Juan Perez, Gordon was approaching third as the ball was relayed back toward the infield. If he’d had the green light, Gordon probably would have been nailed by a decent throw home, especially given baseball’s new anti-collision rules, put in place, coincidentally, mainly due to the man behind the plate, Buster Posey.

But if you play that game, Gordon’s ball probably wasn’t going to get past Blanco and probably wouldn’t have been fumbled by Perez too. For that matter, Madison Bumgarner probably couldn’t throw five innings of shutout relief just 72 hours after throwing a masterful shutout in Game 5 and the Royals probably couldn’t make the World Series in 2014 after two decades of inferiority.

You can’t assume anything in baseball. Holding Gordon on third was probably the right decision, especially with Bumgarner tiring and the certainty that a hit would tie the game. But could Gordon have scored, tying the World Series on what would have been one of the most improbable plays in baseball history? The replays have already been dissected like the Zapruder film. Everyone sees what they want to see.


Both of these opinions are perfectly valid, though reality is probably closer to the middle. The most important thing to note is that Gordon stepped on the brakes about 30 feet from third base. He didn’t want to overrun the bag and get thrown out while trying to scurry back. That affected the timing of the play. He was never trying to score.

But let’s say he was getting waved around. With a decent throw, Gordon would have almost certainly been mowed down. With a throw that was slightly off — which was a higher probability than usual given the craziness and frenzy of the play — Gordon could have made it.

Both Gordon and third-base coach Mike Jirschele defended the decision after the game, as they should have. “I’m not going to give them that last out,” Jirschele said. “We still have a chance.”

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2014/10/alex-gordon-triple-inside-the-park-home-run-score-could-world-series-game-7

[chancellor]

I'd have loved to see Gordon go for it just to see if Posey still had the balls to block the plate. But there's no way a 3rd base coach gives him the green light with where the relay throw was.