Official Postseason Discussion Thread

[rhd]

good night to be an o's fan!

A party at OPACY!

This game illustrates what I thought would be the case in this series. Detroit has 2 Achilles heels: 1) suspect defense and 2) a horrendous bullpen. Detroit's starters are great. The O's have a bunch of middle of the rotation starters. Both clubs have good offenses. If Detroit's starters can shut down the offense and they can score a few runs, then Ausmus maybe can let them go 8 or 9 innings and take the bullpen out of the equation. But if Baltimore can get a lead in the late innings or at least keep it close and get into that soft bullpen, the Tigers are in real trouble. I dont see Detroit going deep into the post-season and I think the big off-season question will be w all the money they spent why they couldnt get at least a halfway decent bullpen.

[Pogues]

Well...seems the Royals enjoy extra innings. 3 straight playoff wins, all in extra frames. What I love is that they go at least 11 each time.

[chancellor]

I hope elD wasn't near sharp objects or tall buildings last night.

[Hornsby]

Nightmare scenario...a Cards/Giants NLCS.

[Fresno Bob]

Nightmare scenario...a Cards/Giants NLCS.

Nightmare for who? Let's Go Giants!

[Hornsby]

Nightmare for who? Let's Go Giants!

A nightmare for this great nation of ours...having the two clubs (read: managers) who pushed the abomination that became the "no contact at the plate" rule that was so bad they had to continually tweak it during the season. And it still sucks ass...

[Mithrandir]

A nightmare for this great nation of ours...having the two clubs (read: managers) who pushed the abomination that became the "no contact at the plate" rule that was so bad they had to continually tweak it during the season. And it still sucks ass...

Disagree. Contact at the plate was stupid, is stupid, and will always be stupid. The rule is good and will hopefully be tweaked to make it consistent.

Allowing a base runner to run at full speed and blast into a catcher who is trying to catch a ball and make a tag is ridiculous.

[Hornsby]

Disagree. Contact at the plate was stupid, is stupid, and will always be stupid. The rule is good and will hopefully be tweaked to make it consistent.

Allowing a base runner to run at full speed and blast into a catcher who is trying to catch a ball and make a tag is ridiculous.

Wrong...the catcher is essentially wearing armor to prevent him from injury. The runner is wearing nothing but a fabric uni...it's more often the runner who gets the short end of the collision. Other than Ray Fosse and Posey, can you name any catchers in the last 150 years who've suffered devastating injuries from a home plate collision?

[Mithrandir]

Wrong...the catcher is essentially wearing armor to prevent him from injury. The runner is wearing nothing but a fabric uni...it's more often the runner who gets the short end of the collision. Other than Ray Fosse and Posey, can you name any catchers in the last 150 years who've suffered devastating injuries from a home plate collision?

So then you make an even better point as to why it shouldn't be allowed. Runners feel the need to blast the catcher else they get ridiculed.

[chancellor]

Wrong...the catcher is essentially wearing armor to prevent him from injury. The runner is wearing nothing but a fabric uni...it's more often the runner who gets the short end of the collision. Other than Ray Fosse and Posey, can you name any catchers in the last 150 years who've suffered devastating injuries from a home plate collision?

They didn't know it at the time, but Todd Greene for sure when he was nearly killed by the Prince Fielder freight train. His shoulder required surgery after the season, and he never had the same arm strength. Rick Dempsey had his thumb nearly tore off by Bo Jackson. I remember those two - especially the Fielder hit on Greene - were particularly vicious (though both were considered clean and within the rules).

And I agree with you, BTW....

[virgonomic]

Wrong...the catcher is essentially wearing armor to prevent him from injury.

That armour is to protect him from 100mph pitches that are being thrown at him. If he is knocked on his a$$, that armour isn't going to help him. It's also not designed to protect him from a runner plowing into him.

Buck Martinez' was only able to play 81 more games after suffering a broken leg in a home plate collision.

[Mithrandir]

It's baseball, not football.

[Hornsby]

That armour is to protect him from 100mph pitches that are being thrown at him. If he is knocked on his a$$, that armour isn't going to help him. It's also not designed to protect him from a runner plowing into him.

Buck Martinez' was only able to play 81 more games after suffering a broken leg in a home plate collision.

So far there's been about a half a dozen catchers that people can think of in a game that's 150+ years old...pretty poor percentage there. And yes, that armor IS going to help him in any collision, that's why football players wear the padding that they do. and the amount of pitches that hit a catcher on the shin is pretty small, IMO. Masks and chest protectors are great for protecting catchers from fouls and bouncing pitches...

And the prevailing attitude for a runner is to score, not to look macho.

The revised rule tried to fix a problem that never existed, and created a whole snakes nest of new problems.

[Pogues]

Astros catcher Humberto Quintero sprained his ankle in a collision while blocking the plate against the Diamondbacks third baseman Ryan Roberts.

Diamondbacks' Eric Byrnes thrust his shoulder into Braves catcher Brian McCann during a 2006 collision, McCann heard a "pop." He had to be helped off the field and figured he was done for the season, but the Atlanta All-Star had only sprained his left ankle.

Angels' Darin Erstad planted his left shoulder into Braves catcher Johnny Estrada's facemask during a 2005 game, sending Estrada to the hospital with a head injury. He suffered from post-concussion syndrome for years after the incident.

Brian Jordan collided with Padres catcher Gary Bennett. He had been hit so hard that he tried to catch the next pitch and fell down. Bennett missed a month with a torn MCL.

Yankees' Mark Teixeira ran into Angels catcher Bobby Wilson with such force that Wilson's head hit the ground hard, causing a concussion.

In 1897, two future Hall of Famers, the Cincinnati Reds’ Bid McPhee and Baltimore Orioles catcher Wilbert Robinson, were involved in a violent play at the plate that injured both men. As the Sporting Life newspaper described it, McPhee’s “daring slide” caused him to crash into Robinson, who was carried off the field with a severe cut at his knee.

During the 1939 World Series. Ernie Lombardi, the Cincinnati Reds’ Hall of Fame catcher, was branded as the goat after the New York Yankees’ Charlie “King Kong” Keller knocked him woozy on a play at the plate in the 10th inning of Game 4. The ball rolled a few feet away, but Lombardi was too dazed to retrieve it, and Joe DiMaggio came all the way around to score. The World Series–clinching play was dubbed “Lombardi’s Snooze” (in those less concussion-aware times)

Washington Senators catcher Clint Courtney, one of the toughest men in the game, suffered a hairline fracture in his leg because of a collision with Hal Smith of the Kansas City A’s during a March exhibition in Florida.

Future Hall of Famer Carlton Fisk of the Boston Red Sox was told he would never catch again after he tore ligaments in his left knee in a collision with Cleveland’s Leron Lee in 1974.

Should I keep looking? Oh, and much as you want to say the equipment that catchers wear is to prevent injury from home plate collisions, they have nothing that will prevent concussions.

[Hornsby]

Astros catcher Humberto Quintero sprained his ankle in a collision while blocking the plate against the Diamondbacks third baseman Ryan Roberts.

Diamondbacks' Eric Byrnes thrust his shoulder into Braves catcher Brian McCann during a 2006 collision, McCann heard a "pop." He had to be helped off the field and figured he was done for the season, but the Atlanta All-Star had only sprained his left ankle.

Angels' Darin Erstad planted his left shoulder into Braves catcher Johnny Estrada's facemask during a 2005 game, sending Estrada to the hospital with a head injury. He suffered from post-concussion syndrome for years after the incident.

Brian Jordan collided with Padres catcher Gary Bennett. He had been hit so hard that he tried to catch the next pitch and fell down. Bennett missed a month with a torn MCL.

Yankees' Mark Teixeira ran into Angels catcher Bobby Wilson with such force that Wilson's head hit the ground hard, causing a concussion.

In 1897, two future Hall of Famers, the Cincinnati Reds’ Bid McPhee and Baltimore Orioles catcher Wilbert Robinson, were involved in a violent play at the plate that injured both men. As the Sporting Life newspaper described it, McPhee’s “daring slide” caused him to crash into Robinson, who was carried off the field with a severe cut at his knee.

During the 1939 World Series. Ernie Lombardi, the Cincinnati Reds’ Hall of Fame catcher, was branded as the goat after the New York Yankees’ Charlie “King Kong” Keller knocked him woozy on a play at the plate in the 10th inning of Game 4. The ball rolled a few feet away, but Lombardi was too dazed to retrieve it, and Joe DiMaggio came all the way around to score. The World Series–clinching play was dubbed “Lombardi’s Snooze” (in those less concussion-aware times)

Washington Senators catcher Clint Courtney, one of the toughest men in the game, suffered a hairline fracture in his leg because of a collision with Hal Smith of the Kansas City A’s during a March exhibition in Florida.

Future Hall of Famer Carlton Fisk of the Boston Red Sox was told he would never catch again after he tore ligaments in his left knee in a collision with Cleveland’s Leron Lee in 1974.

Should I keep looking? Oh, and much as you want to say the equipment that catchers wear is to prevent injury from home plate collisions, they have nothing that will prevent concussions.

Again, it's an amazingly small sample of injuries when considering all of the possible home plate collisions in the history of the game. Such a small percentage in no way should have influenced such a dramatic rules change, no way, no how.

And yes, the equipment they wear is exactly designed to prevent concussions...just last night, Salvy Perez took a bat to the head and shook it off, because of the helmet he was wearing. Joe Mauer had to stop catching because he took a foul ball in the head...the same gear didn't save him. Corey Koskie fell down in the outfield and his head snapped back and hit the turf, he never recovered. Justin Morneau suffered a concussion while sliding into 2nd base...how can we protect against that? Do we disallow sliding altogether given the amount of injuries both baserunners (hand and head) and infielders suffer?

It's my contention that you simply can't take one area and legislate it out of the game. You can make it safer, but to take it out altogether is folly IMO. And that's been proven to be true this season...