ike davis to pirates

[Bodhizefa]

I realize it could be any of their 2013 draftees. My point was that if it was anyone besides Meadows, they got hosed.

You do realize Ike Davis kindof sucks, right? There's still some potential in there, but overall, he's mostly a meh guy who's making nearly $4 million this year. There are plenty of non-Meadows/Hanson guys who could still make this a profitable venture for the Mets without them getting "hosed." Honestly, if they got Hanson or Meadows, it'd be the Pirates getting hosed. I think you're both overestimating Davis' potential as well as underestimating the value of a Meadows or a Hanson.

[revo]

You do realize Ike Davis kindof sucks, right? There's still some potential in there, but overall, he's mostly a meh guy who's making nearly $4 million this year. There are plenty of non-Meadows/Hanson guys who could still make this a profitable venture for the Mets without them getting "hosed." Honestly, if they got Hanson or Meadows, it'd be the Pirates getting hosed. I think you're both overestimating Davis' potential as well as underestimating the value of a Meadows or a Hanson.

Would you rather have Thornton & let's call it JaCoby Jones or Zach Britton and another minor leaguer? Because that's who Alderson turned down a month ago.

[Sharky]

My money is on JaCoby Jones.

[eephus]

My money is on JaCoby Jones.

Do the Mets need a Punt ReTurner?

[cavebird]

Do the Mets need a Punt ReTurner?

It would only make sense if it were a minor league punt returner because the Mets are the team punting this year.

[madducks]

I think the PTBNL is going to be Tabata or Snider. They'll both be expendable after Polanco gets called up this summer.

BTW, i like Ike and the trade as long as the Pirates don't give up a top 10 prospect.

[ThatRogue]

Here's additional consideration of players that could be involved in the deal: http://www.mlbprospectwatch.com/mlb_...vis-trade.html.

I like prospects too, but what percentage of team's top ten prospects ever have a 30 HR season...or the pitching equivalent? Ike Davis is 27 years old, has serious power, decent on-base skills, and was the 16th overall pick in the first round when he was drafted (2008). He's as good a lottery ticket as at least half of the Pirates' top ten prospects.

Just for kicks, here are the Pirates and Mets top ten prospects (per Baseball America) in 2009, the year after Ike Davis was drafted. Note that Ike Davis did not show up on the list until the following year (2010), when he was fourth behind Mejia, Flores & F.Martinez, and ahead of Brad Holt, John Niese, Reese Havens, Josh Thole, Ruben Tejada and Juan Urbina:

METS

1.	Fernando Martinez, of
2.	Wilmer Flores, ss
3.	Jonathon Niese, lhp
4.	Brad Holt, rhp
5.	Bobby Parnell, rhp
6.	Jefry Marte, 3b
7.	Jenrry Mejia, rhp
8.	Reese Havens, ss
9.	Nick Evans, 1b/of
10.	Eddie Kunz, rhp

PIRATES

1.	Pedro Alvarez, 3b
2.	Andrew McCutchen, of
3.	Jose Tabata, of
4.	Brad Lincoln, rhp
5.	Bryan Morris, rhp
6.	Neil Walker, 3b
7.	Jeff Sues, rhp
8.	Shelby Ford, 2b
9.	Daniel McCutchen, rhp
10.	Robbie Grossman, of

[umjewman]

Here's additional consideration of players that could be involved in the deal: http://www.mlbprospectwatch.com/mlb_...vis-trade.html.

I like prospects too, but what percentage of team's top ten prospects ever have a 30 HR season...or the pitching equivalent? Ike Davis is 27 years old, has serious power, decent on-base skills, and was the 16th overall pick in the first round when he was drafted (2008). He's as good a lottery ticket as at least half of the Pirates' top ten prospects.

Just for kicks, here are the Pirates and Mets top ten prospects (per Baseball America) in 2009, the year after Ike Davis was drafted. Note that Ike Davis did not show up on the list until the following year (2010), when he was fourth behind Mejia, Flores & F.Martinez, and ahead of Brad Holt, John Niese, Reese Havens, Josh Thole, Ruben Tejada and Juan Urbina:

METS

1.	Fernando Martinez, of
2.	Wilmer Flores, ss
3.	Jonathon Niese, lhp
4.	Brad Holt, rhp
5.	Bobby Parnell, rhp
6.	Jefry Marte, 3b
7.	Jenrry Mejia, rhp
8.	Reese Havens, ss
9.	Nick Evans, 1b/of
10.	Eddie Kunz, rhp

PIRATES

1.	Pedro Alvarez, 3b
2.	Andrew McCutchen, of
3.	Jose Tabata, of
4.	Brad Lincoln, rhp
5.	Bryan Morris, rhp
6.	Neil Walker, 3b
7.	Jeff Sues, rhp
8.	Shelby Ford, 2b
9.	Daniel McCutchen, rhp
10.	Robbie Grossman, of

My reaction to this post was hot damn, Wilmer Flores has been around a long time.

I think the bottom line was Ike was unlikely to succeed again in NY (I believe he even alluded to that in some interviews) and he needed a change of scenery. But, his recent performace really hampered what the Mets could get for him. We'll see if he can regain his past form.

[eephus]

Wilmer Flores is two years younger than George Springer

[cavebird]

Here's additional consideration of players that could be involved in the deal: http://www.mlbprospectwatch.com/mlb_...vis-trade.html.

I like prospects too, but what percentage of team's top ten prospects ever have a 30 HR season...or the pitching equivalent? Ike Davis is 27 years old, has serious power, decent on-base skills, and was the 16th overall pick in the first round when he was drafted (2008). He's as good a lottery ticket as at least half of the Pirates' top ten prospects.

Just for kicks, here are the Pirates and Mets top ten prospects (per Baseball America) in 2009, the year after Ike Davis was drafted. Note that Ike Davis did not show up on the list until the following year (2010), when he was fourth behind Mejia, Flores & F.Martinez, and ahead of Brad Holt, John Niese, Reese Havens, Josh Thole, Ruben Tejada and Juan Urbina:

METS

1.	Fernando Martinez, of
2.	Wilmer Flores, ss
3.	Jonathon Niese, lhp
4.	Brad Holt, rhp
5.	Bobby Parnell, rhp
6.	Jefry Marte, 3b
7.	Jenrry Mejia, rhp
8.	Reese Havens, ss
9.	Nick Evans, 1b/of
10.	Eddie Kunz, rhp

PIRATES

1.	Pedro Alvarez, 3b
2.	Andrew McCutchen, of
3.	Jose Tabata, of
4.	Brad Lincoln, rhp
5.	Bryan Morris, rhp
6.	Neil Walker, 3b
7.	Jeff Sues, rhp
8.	Shelby Ford, 2b
9.	Daniel McCutchen, rhp
10.	Robbie Grossman, of

The problem with this argument is that it assumes that having a 30-HR season makes one a good player. Ike Davis tallied a whopping 1.0 WAR in his 30-HR season. This trade is the equivalent of when the Braves dumped Jeff Franceour on the Mets. He had a 30-HR season in his past at that point, too. The Braves got junk in return. Not sure why the Mets should get more.

[ThatRogue]

Frenchy had the tools to be a successful major league player, with the exception of plate discipline, which ultimately was his undoing. Pitchers eventually stopped throwing Francouer anything he could drive with authority.

Ike Davis does not have that same problem, as his walk rates tend to be in the 11% range, almost twice Francouer's. And, while Ike has gotten off to some interestingly poor starts these past two seasons (first half BABIPs of .233 and .222, respectively), his second half of 2012 slash line was .255/.542/.888 with an OBP of .346 and 20 HRs in 251 ABs, while his second half of 2013 slash line was .286/.449/.954 with an OBP of .449, but only 4 HRs in 105 ABs. If you pitch to him, he can punish you, as he did in 2012. And, as he showed after last season's stint in the minors...if you throw him garbage, he'll take his free base and extend the inning for those hitting behind him. He's not a great player by any means, but he has shown that he has the approach and ability to be a productive major league player, something at least 50% of any team's top ten prospects (in any given season) are highly unlikely to become. We're not talking about Polanco or Meadows or any other name that would be ridiculous to bring up. But some people have said that the Pirates should not give up any top ten prospect for Davis, and that is flat out ridiculous.

(And yes, I agree that Davis needed a change of scenery. Getting out of NY should prove beneficial to his career.)

[frae]

The Pirates have 9 very good prospects in their organization and if they trade any of those guys it is flat out ridiculous...

Polanco
Taillion
Glasnow
Meadows
Kingham
Bell
Hanson
Heredia
McGuire

If you want to argue for anyone else as the 10th fine, but seriously the Pirates have 9 guys who should only be traded to get pieces that are locks to be successes. Jacoby Jones checks in at 14 on Sickels list and has upside, I see that as about what Ike Davis will and should get in this situation.

[ThatRogue]

The Pirates have 9 very good prospects in their organization and if they trade any of those guys it is flat out ridiculous...

Polanco
Taillion
Glasnow
Meadows
Kingham
Bell
Hanson
Heredia
McGuire

If you want to argue for anyone else as the 10th fine, but seriously the Pirates have 9 guys who should only be traded to get pieces that are locks to be successes. Jacoby Jones checks in at 14 on Sickels list and has upside, I see that as about what Ike Davis will and should get in this situation.

I guarantee you that at least four of them won't have as good a major league career as Ike Davis has had already. Such is the nature of minor league prospects in any organization...

[The Dane]

I guarantee you that at least four of them won't have as good a major league career as Ike Davis has had already. Such is the nature of minor league prospects in any organization...

Yup. And a couple of those guys may never make the majors. Maybe one of them becomes a star. Prospects are fools gold.

[frae]

I guarantee you that at least four of them won't have as good a major league career as Ike Davis has had already. Such is the nature of minor league prospects in any organization...

Well you may be right, but you do not trade guys with that talent and upside for a guy like Ike Davis and the Pirates won't. If Davis was in such high demand the Mets would have traded him a lot sooner, but there clearly was not a big market for him.