2K24: Baltimore Orioles

[madducks]

He actually went 1-for-17.

You will have to take it up with Rotoworld.

[rhd]

O's are back in 1st place after beating the miserable White Sox 9-0 while the Yanks gave up a walk-off GS to Wyatt Langford to blow a save and lose 7-4 to Texas. O's have played very mediocre ball over the last 2.5 months, going 32-34 since Jun 20, but the Yanks have played even worse. Plenty of cause for concern in Baltimore but they have to be tearing their hair out in New York tonite. O's again amazingly have the best record in the AL.

[madducks]

Orioles DFA Craig Kimbrel.

[madducks]

Coby Mayo goes back to Triple-A.

[madducks]

Orioles option Eloy Jimenez to Triple-A Norfolk.

[rhd]

O's clinched a playoff spot w their 5-3 win over the Yanks tonite. The way they've played over the last 3 months, the O's basically are limping into the playoffs. Pitching actually has been pretty good lately, but the offense is pretty stagnant. If we're not hitting HRs, we're not scoring.

[rhd]

O's clinched a playoff spot w their 5-3 win over the Yanks tonite. The way they've played over the last 3 months, the O's basically are limping into the playoffs. Pitching actually has been pretty good lately, but the offense is pretty stagnant. If we're not hitting HRs, we're not scoring.

Everything I said held true, only more so. They limped in and limped right out. The only run they scored in the playoffs was a solo HR. They got only 1 hit w runners in scoring position and that didnt score a run. They had only 2 XBH in the series, both by the same player. They struck out 22 times and walked 4 times. They wasted some excellent pitching. Disappointing end to a disappointing season.

[revo]

Very disappointing. They need to re-sign Burnes and add another top SP. They wasted two great trade chips (Norby & Stowers) on a total non-entity, in a trade any fantasy player at the time was furious by.

Colton Cowser also broke his hand on that HBP last night.

[Ken]

Very disappointing. They need to re-sign Burnes and add another top SP. They wasted two great trade chips (Norby & Stowers) on a total non-entity, in a trade any fantasy player at the time was furious by.

Was Stowers really a great trade chip? If so.. why? He's way too old to be considered a prospect, the bat is okay but nothing special, and he seems average or worse on defense. Stowers seems like a guy the fantasy community was excited about due to some potential cheap power, but in real baseball he's a 4th outfielder at best right?

Norby still has a chance to turn into a viable regular, but even still he wasn't a *top* prospect. His peak was at 93 on the BA list in 2023.

They likely lost this trade since Rogers continues to struggle, but it didn't seem so egregious to me. As a fantasy player I had almost no interest in Stowers and limited interest in Norby, maybe as an end of the bench option for the future?

Spare parts for spare parts, and at least the Orioles gave it a shot.

[rhd]

Yeah, the Norby/Stowers trade didnt work because Rogers was terrible but in analyzing what went wrong this year that wasnt the problem. As I said before, Norby and Stowers didnt fit on this team anyway. And Stowers hasnt done any more for Marlins so far than he did for the O's. A .557 OPS in 156 ABs. Norby has been solid but not any better than that so far. He might be a regular offense-first 2Bman long-term. The prospect they end up regretting trading away most might just be Moises Chace.

One obvious problem was they lost 3 definite rotation SPs in Grayson, Bradish and Means and a potential 4th in Tyler Wells. They also lost their closer, Felix Bautista. I did some brief research to see where the team was lacking in 2024. They seem average or better almost across the board including starting pitching. The area that jumped out at me was they had one of the worst-performing bullpens in MLB, something I was surprised at. Their RPs had a bWAR of -3.6, 24th in MLB. That could help account for their 14-18 record in 1-run G and 5-6 record in extra-inning G. Seems like they could have done a better job shoring this up at the trade deadline.

I'm probably overreacting a bit because I'm an O's fan but I expected a better finish. The playoffs always are a bit of a crapshoot but they could have avoided playing in the 1st round by a better 2nd half finish. But it's common for a team that broke out the previous year to take a step back the next year. The future still is very bright and prospects of the caliber of Holliday and Mayo are bound to perform much better in the future. I wish they would bite the bullet and sign Burnes long-term but the feeling is that probably wont happen.

[revo]

Was Stowers really a great trade chip? If so.. why? He's way too old to be considered a prospect, the bat is okay but nothing special, and he seems average or worse on defense. Stowers seems like a guy the fantasy community was excited about due to some potential cheap power, but in real baseball he's a 4th outfielder at best right?

Norby still has a chance to turn into a viable regular, but even still he wasn't a *top* prospect. His peak was at 93 on the BA list in 2023.

They likely lost this trade since Rogers continues to struggle, but it didn't seem so egregious to me. As a fantasy player I had almost no interest in Stowers and limited interest in Norby, maybe as an end of the bench option for the future?

Spare parts for spare parts, and at least the Orioles gave it a shot.

They both were top 10 prospects in their system at one time: Norby in 2023, Stowers in 2022.Granted, Stowers probably isn't anything special, and Norby didn't fit with the Marlins, but Rogers had a 4.50 ERA and 1.53 WHIP at the time of the deal. Maybe they saw something they could tweak to get him back to his 2021 form, but he got even worse after the deal. Good news is they have him for 3 more seasons to work it out.

[Ken]

They both were top 10 prospects in their system at one time: Norby in 2023, Stowers in 2022.Granted, Stowers probably isn't anything special, and Norby didn't fit with the Marlins, but Rogers had a 4.50 ERA and 1.53 WHIP at the time of the deal. Maybe they saw something they could tweak to get him back to his 2021 form, but he got even worse after the deal. Good news is they have him for 3 more seasons to work it out.

Top 10 in their systems at one time doesn't really mean anything as far as MLB trade value. Neither one was considered a 50fv prospect at the time of the trade. If trades were based on peak value they'd look a lot different, but what a guy was valued at in 2022 means almost nothing now.

Although honestly if we're going there, it's best to look at both sides of this trade equally. If we're allowed to rewind, at the start of 2022, Rogers was coming off an all star year where he was 2nd in the RoY voting and put up 3.5 WAR. It's likely that's better than any other season that comes out of this trade.

The remote chance that Rogers can return to that form is likely worth Stowers + Norby.

[revo]

Top 10 in their systems at one time doesn't really mean anything as far as MLB trade value. Neither one was considered a 50fv prospect at the time of the trade. If trades were based on peak value they'd look a lot different, but what a guy was valued at in 2022 means almost nothing now.

Although honestly if we're going there, it's best to look at both sides of this trade equally. If we're allowed to rewind, at the start of 2022, Rogers was coming off an all star year where he was 2nd in the RoY voting and put up 3.5 WAR. It's likely that's better than any other season that comes out of this trade.

The remote chance that Rogers can return to that form is likely worth Stowers + Norby.

Is there any analyst at the time of that trade that did not think it was a big overpay?

The Athletic's baseball analysts, for example, at the time of the deal, said it was a "pretty huge overpay" and gave the Marlins an A while the Orioles a C+ to a D.

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5669215/2024/07/30/mlb-trade-grades-trevor-rogers-orioles-marlins/

There are many others, both professional and fan-based blogs, who panned the deal at the time. Obviously, it's only gotten worse.

I get what the O's were doing at the time, trading two mid-level guys who didn't fit for expensive controllable pitching help, but man, this was a "smartest guy in the room" type deal.

[Ken]

Is there any analyst at the time of that trade that did not think it was a big overpay?

I don't know, I don't really pay attention to trade grades very often.

I still don't get the point you're trying to make. They gave up nothing to try to revive a former allstar pitcher and they ended up getting nothing so far for it since he's clearly still struggling. But why is that a bad trade?

To be a bad trade you'd have to be giving up something.

[revo]

I don't know, I don't really pay attention to trade grades very often.

I still don't get the point you're trying to make. They gave up nothing to try to revive a former allstar pitcher and they ended up getting nothing so far for it since he's clearly still struggling. But why is that a bad trade?

To be a bad trade you'd have to be giving up something.

Saying Norby and Stowers were"nothing" puts you in the extreme minority. It was far from nothing, they were roasted at the time of the deal and it's only gotten worse, unless they can fix him, and they wasted at least one Top 100 prospect in the trade. That's the point.