Originally posted by Judge Jude
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Will Roy Halladay make it to 300 career wins?
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Originally posted by eldiablo505Yeah, but we were supposed to be talking about great pitchers.
Moose doesn't qualify as great in my book.If DMT didn't exist we would have to invent it. There has to be a weirdest thing. Once we have the concept weird, there has to be a weirdest thing. And DMT is simply it.
- Terence McKenna
Bullshit is everywhere. - George Carlin (& Jon Stewart)
How old would you be if you didn't know how old you are? - Satchel Paige
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Originally posted by eldiablo505Yeah, but we were supposed to be talking about great pitchers.
Moose doesn't qualify as great in my book."When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less."
"The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things."
"The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master - that's all."
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Originally posted by eldiablo505Truesense! Mussina was somewhere between good and very good. Definitely not great. I mean, in the post that B-Fly responded to, Cavebird brought up Sandy Koufax when referencing great pitchers. Mussina isn't even on the same planet as Koufax. He's about like Andy Pettitte to me. Both are very good but neither are HoFers and neither is great.
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Originally posted by TS Garp View PostYou're selling him short. Koufax is certainly in a different class, to be sure, but Mussina's better than Pettitte. His career ERA+ compares very favorably to Marichal and Palmer.
No contest here = Moose > Petttte, and all things considered, Moose >>> Pettitte. Moose is a borderline HOFer, kinda like a Jack Morris of the '90s/'00s.
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The more interesting question for this thread is Moose versus Halladay, as we think about whether Halladay will stick for 300 wins or go out short like Moose. Baseball Reference has Moose as the pitcher in MLB history with the greatest statistical similarity to Halladay through age 34. Of course, Doc has two Cy Youngs and a World Series ring on Moose, so he's probably building a stronger HOF case for himself.
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Originally posted by B-Fly View PostThe more interesting question for this thread is Moose versus Halladay, as we think about whether Halladay will stick for 300 wins or go out short like Moose. Baseball Reference has Moose as the pitcher in MLB history with the greatest statistical similarity to Halladay through age 34. Of course, Doc has two Cy Youngs and a World Series ring on Moose, so he's probably building a stronger HOF case for himself.
I thought of them as Moose = good to very good, Doc = very good to great to the best
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"Baseball Reference has Moose as the pitcher in MLB history with the greatest statistical similarity to Halladay through age 34."
that's considered at least as much a toy as it is a scientific method; don't take it too seriously. but yeah, Mussina had an excellent and underrated career.
also a better postseason pitcher than Pettitte - 3.42 ERA in 140 IP.
Of course, Pettitte (3.83 ERA in 263 IP) did a better job of inspiring his teammates to score a lot of runs, so there's that
to match Pettitte's postseason ERA, Mussina would have to allow 59 ER in 123 IP (4.32 ERA), not exactly a heavy liftfinished 10th in this 37th yr in 11-team-only NL 5x5
own picks 1, 2, 5, 6, 9 in April 2022 1st-rd farmhand draft
won in 2017 15 07 05 04 02 93 90 84
SP SGray 16, TWalker 10, AWood 10, Price 3, KH Kim 2, Corbin 10
RP Bednar 10, Bender 10, Graterol 2
C Stallings 2, Casali 1
1B Votto 10, 3B ERios 2, 1B Zimmerman 2, 2S Chisholm 5, 2B Hoerner 5, 2B Solano 2, 2B LGarcia 10, SS Gregorius 17
OF Cain 14, Bader 1, Daza 1
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Originally posted by Judge Jude View Post"Baseball Reference has Moose as the pitcher in MLB history with the greatest statistical similarity to Halladay through age 34."
that's considered at least as much a toy as it is a scientific method; don't take it too seriously. but yeah, Mussina had an excellent and underrated career.
also a better postseason pitcher than Pettitte - 3.42 ERA in 140 IP.
Of course, Pettitte (3.83 ERA in 263 IP) did a better job of inspiring his teammates to score a lot of runs, so there's that
to match Pettitte's postseason ERA, Mussina would have to allow 59 ER in 123 IP (4.32 ERA), not exactly a heavy lift
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Originally posted by B-Fly View PostOf course, Doc has two Cy Youngs and a World Series ring on Moose, so he's probably building a stronger HOF case for himself.Originally posted by Kevin SeitzerWe pinch ran for Altuve specifically to screw over Mith's fantasy team.
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Shelved with "shoulder soreness," which has apparently been bothering him for a while. We won't know til Tue or Wed if it's anything more serious than that.Originally posted by Kevin SeitzerWe pinch ran for Altuve specifically to screw over Mith's fantasy team.
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"He was a key rotation guy for five World Series Championship teams. Winning championships is not, IMHO, an unreasonable thing to take into consideration when measuring a pro athlete's career. And yet for some reason that seems to be a more controversial thing to say for MLB players than for NFL or NBA players."
since Mussina was both a better regular-season AND a better postseason pitcher than Pettitte, how many World Series would the Yankees have won with Mussina instead?
p.s. the championship thing works better to say "players who played roles on championship teams are better remembered." Yankees fans will remember Pettitte more fondly than Orioles fans/Mussina for that reason.
and as noted in the NBA thread, the impact of one player in that sport is exponentially higher than a sport like baseball.
I'm ignoring the Halladay stuff because my team's season hangs in the balance of that soreness.
Last edited by Judge Jude; 05-28-2012, 08:59 AM.finished 10th in this 37th yr in 11-team-only NL 5x5
own picks 1, 2, 5, 6, 9 in April 2022 1st-rd farmhand draft
won in 2017 15 07 05 04 02 93 90 84
SP SGray 16, TWalker 10, AWood 10, Price 3, KH Kim 2, Corbin 10
RP Bednar 10, Bender 10, Graterol 2
C Stallings 2, Casali 1
1B Votto 10, 3B ERios 2, 1B Zimmerman 2, 2S Chisholm 5, 2B Hoerner 5, 2B Solano 2, 2B LGarcia 10, SS Gregorius 17
OF Cain 14, Bader 1, Daza 1
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Originally posted by Erik View PostAlso a perfect game and a postseason no-hitter.
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