American League MVP

[revo]

who you got:

Curtis Granderson: .270, 134 R, 41 HR, 119 RBI, 24 SB, 145 OPS+
Robinson Cano: .305, 101 R, 27 HR, 116 RBI, 8 SB, 131 OPS+
Adrian Gonzalez: .341, 107 R, 27 HR, 116 RBI, 158 OPS+
Jose Bautista: .304, 104 R, 42 HR, 101 RBI, 8 SB, 184 OPS+
Michael Young: .335, 84 R, 11 HR, 104 RBI, 6 SB, 123 OPS+
Miguel Cabrera: .333, 102 R, 26 HR, 98 RBI, 2 SB, 174 OPS+
David Ortiz: .312, 83 R, 29 HR, 96 RBI, 158 OPS+
Jacoby Ellsbury: .319, 114 R, 28 HR, 98 RBI, 37 SB, 142 OPS+
Justin Verlander: 24-5, 2.29 ERA, 0.91 WHIP, 56/244

[B-Fly]

As a Yankee fan, I'd love to see Grady or Cano get the award. When I set my fandom aside, however, I find it almost impossible to choose among the hitters, and that keeps pushing me back to Verlander.

[DMT]

I think it comes down to Granderson or Verlander.

[Trautdiggity]

I think it comes down to Granderson or Verlander.

Agreed. Unlike some other situations where teammates sap each other's value, I don't think Cano gets much of a look at all, the votes will go to Grandy. It's hard not to like Verlander, but I think ultimately Grandy will win it, because the inherent bias against a guy who plays once every fifth game still exists. That said, the difference is razor thin.

[Moonlight J]

In terms of hitters, Bautista's current Value over Replacement, as a hitter, is 84.5 according to Baseball Prospectus.

Next highest -- Ellsbury at 68.2 and Granderson at 66.6. That's 20% better than Ellsbury

Pitching: Verlander tops at 60.9, Weaver at 54.7 and Sabathia at 48.0. That's 11% better than Weaver

I can't get past the fact that 2/3rds of Verlander's starts this season have come against teams below .500 and yet he is still not THAT much better statistically than his closest competition.

Bautista, meanwhile, with little help around him facing the likes of Price, Lester, Beckett, Sabathia, Hellickson on a regular basis, is far and away the most productive hitter in baseball.

I don't penalize a guy for being on a bad team that doesn't give him much help.

[chancellor]

I wouldn't have my feelings hurt if Bautista won, but Granderson is the guy for me. I don't see how he loses, either. He has the giant "popular" counting numbers, provides good defense, and has good enough numbers to get quality votes from the saber types.

For CGrand to succeed this wildly well in the toughest media market, on top of high levels of suspicion that he'd ever hit lefties well again, that's enough for me.

[pjs24]

I'd be thrilled if Verlander or Granderson won. Though a Yankee now, I still love Granderson and watch tons of his games (and have a beagle named after him!). All that said, I still think Bautista is the MVP whether you're talking numbers or watching him dominate. The only thing going against him is his 24 other teammates which I don't penalize in the least.

[Moonlight J]

If we put Bautista's #'s on the Yankees right now....is there any doubt he isn't the clear winner?

Until the BBWAA puts some objectivity into this process and makes people vote on the #'s more than the W-L record, it's going to give us better debates than it does results.

[SeaDogStat]

Until the BBWAA puts some objectivity into this process and makes people vote on the #'s more than the W-L record, it's going to give us better debates than it does results.

+1

Would it help if the wording was changed from Most Valuable Player to Player of the Year? Because, even though it shouldn't, I have two different people I think of when thinking MVP vs POY...

[Bob Kohm]

+1

Would it help if the wording was changed from Most Valuable Player to Player of the Year? Because, even though it shouldn't, I have two different people I think of when thinking MVP vs POY...

It would help if there was a second and separate "Player of the Year". MVP is exactly what baseball wants and needs-- a recognition of a player for being "most valuable", with all the ink, bandwidth and hot air that discussing it entails. Subjectivity is the lifeblood of human intellect and interest. Why are so many smart people out to eradicate it from this game?

[B-Fly]

I wouldn't have my feelings hurt if Bautista won, but Granderson is the guy for me. I don't see how he loses, either. He has the giant "popular" counting numbers, provides good defense, and has good enough numbers to get quality votes from the saber types.

For CGrand to succeed this wildly well in the toughest media market, on top of high levels of suspicion that he'd ever hit lefties well again, that's enough for me.

If Grandy's AVG were closer to .300, I think he'd win easily. I think a lot of voters still put real weight on AVG and just won't ever view a .270 hitter as the MVP when you've got so many key players on good teams who are well north of .300.

[revo]

If we put Bautista's #'s on the Yankees right now....is there any doubt he isn't the clear winner?

Until the BBWAA puts some objectivity into this process and makes people vote on the #'s more than the W-L record, it's going to give us better debates than it does results.

Sorry MJ, but this is not what the award is about.

Many players have been arguably the "most valuable" in the league but were not even close to having the best offensive stats. Dustin Pedroia, Jimmy Rollins, Barry Larkin, Terry Pendleton, Justin Morneau, Ichiro, etc. all were very worthy winners, but didn't have the best stats (or possibly even stats in the top 5 of their league).

If you want to place the player with the best stats on the best team every year, of course he'd win. If ARod were on the Yanks his whole career, he'd be an 8-time MVP also.

[chancellor]

If Grandy's AVG were closer to .300, I think he'd win easily. I think a lot of voters still put real weight on AVG and just won't ever view a .270 hitter as the MVP when you've got so many key players on good teams who are well north of .300.

Good point. I still think his mammoth counting numbers will allow him to bestride the MVP like a colossus.

[Moonlight J]

Sorry MJ, but this is not what the award is about.

Many players have been arguably the "most valuable" in the league but were not even close to having the best offensive stats. Dustin Pedroia, Jimmy Rollins, Barry Larkin, Terry Pendleton, Justin Morneau, Ichiro, etc. all were very worthy winners, but didn't have the best stats (or possibly even stats in the top 5 of their league).

If you want to place the player with the best stats on the best team every year, of course he'd win. If ARod were on the Yanks his whole career, he'd be an 8-time MVP also.

Because the process is a sh*tty one with zero objectivity. It's all opinion based and in some cases agenda-based drivel.

It's not like Bautista is even a crappy defender - he's pretty decent and has played two positions while being 20% more productive than any other hitter in the American League. If he were on Boston or NY, this would not even be debatable.

By any objective measure, he has provided more value than other hitter in the league. I'm fine with Verlander doing it but Bautista should not lose to any other hitter in the AL because he has dominated all of them.

Look at any objective measure of total offensive value, and he wins all of them.

[Moonlight J]

Oh, and Morneau's MVP was a laughable joke. He wasn't even the best player on his team that season but that pretty RBI total gets the voters every time. Vernon Wells finished 22nd that season despite having one of the 8 best seasons of any hitter that year.