2K21 Closer thread

[revo]

not assuming this is for this particular player, but all sports are trying to get away from Neanderthal thinking on mental health issues. and that's not the only possible variable. this is not a suspension

Lovullo didn’t go further with the reason.

BTW, he is the 3rd player this season so far to step away from the game for personal reasons.

[joncarlos]

In one of my 50-round draft-and-holds, I took all of Soria and Crichton and Clippard in hopes of getting the AZ saves. I got them all really cheaply, but still... looking like 3 strikes and I'm out so far.

[revo]

I'm finding it interesting that the fantasy community got a large number of closer spec jobs completely wrong -- Karinchak, Fairbanks, Pagan, Bradley, Hicks, Romano, Scott. I don't ever recall this large number of early season surprises before.

[Ken]

I'm finding it interesting that the fantasy community got a large number of closer spec jobs completely wrong -- Karinchak, Fairbanks, Pagan, Bradley, Hicks, Romano, Scott. I don't ever recall this large number of early season surprises before.

I agree with you.

Part of the issue is that mlb is moving away from a defined closer. Half of teams use closer committees now. That seems to increase every year. In a few years I could see there being only a handful of teams that try to force a closer role.

[Moonlight J]

To date, 64% of saves in MLB have been earned by pitchers whose NFBC ADP was higher than 350.

[Moonlight J]

I agree with you.

Part of the issue is that mlb is moving away from a defined closer. Half of teams use closer committees now. That seems to increase every year. In a few years I could see there being only a handful of teams that try to force a closer role.

We're going to need to evolve fantasy baseball to keep up with real baseball. Most MLB teams (smartly) don't care about a full-time closer recognizing that the lead may not last to the 9th inning. I mean, look at Baltimore slinging up Doug Jones 2.0 in Cesar Valdez out there for saves while using Tanner Scott and Scott Armstrong in front of him who clearly have better stuff.

So much of this appears to be quelling the rally that comes the third time through the heart of the order more than waiting to see what happens by the 9th inning.

[chancellor]

We're going to need to evolve fantasy baseball to keep up with real baseball. Most MLB teams (smartly) don't care about a full-time closer recognizing that the lead may not last to the 9th inning. I mean, look at Baltimore slinging up Doug Jones 2.0 in Cesar Valdez out there for saves while using Tanner Scott and Scott Armstrong in front of him who clearly have better stuff.

So much of this appears to be quelling the rally that comes the third time through the heart of the order more than waiting to see what happens by the 9th inning.

I'm wondering if that pendulum is beginning to shift back the other way. Milwaukee moved Hader back into the ninth inning role full time this year. The Pads appear to have settled on Melancon in the closer role. Cubs use a dedicated closer in Kimbrel. The Mets do in Diaz. The Twins clearly want Colome to close. The White Sox invested a lot of coin in Hendriks closing. The Yankees have Chapman. The Blue Jays are sorting out their closer situation, but clearly intended to put a premier arm out there.

All of these teams are playoff contenders. Almost all of them have arguably put their best bullpen pitcher as a closer - the Pads can be argued that Melancon isn't the best pitcher in the bullpen. I'm not a fan of Kimbrel, but his stuff is clearly better than anyone else in the Cubs pen right now.

[Ken]

I'm wondering if that pendulum is beginning to shift back the other way. Milwaukee moved Hader back into the ninth inning role full time this year. The Pads appear to have settled on Melancon in the closer role. Cubs use a dedicated closer in Kimbrel. The Mets do in Diaz. The Twins clearly want Colome to close. The White Sox invested a lot of coin in Hendriks closing. The Yankees have Chapman. The Blue Jays are sorting out their closer situation, but clearly intended to put a premier arm out there.

All of these teams are playoff contenders. Almost all of them have arguably put their best bullpen pitcher as a closer - the Pads can be argued that Melancon isn't the best pitcher in the bullpen. I'm not a fan of Kimbrel, but his stuff is clearly better than anyone else in the Cubs pen right now.

I would disagree, most years the list you just wrote would be about 25 teams.

[chancellor]

I would disagree, most years the list you just wrote would be about 25 teams.

Understood. But in 2018/9, the Brewers frequently used Hader in a "get critical outs role", and the Jays and White Sox both invested money to put premium arms in closer roles. It's not a major sea change, but it's sure different among some contending teams.

[Ken]

Understood. But in 2018/9, the Brewers frequently used Hader in a "get critical outs role", and the Jays and White Sox both invested money to put premium arms in closer roles. It's not a major sea change, but it's sure different among some contending teams.

That's why I noted above that in a few years there would be only a handful of teams left with closer roles well defined. I suspect we'll see remnants of the closer for a while, but it's dying off when you look at the big pitcher across all teams.

[joncarlos]

When Mariano Rivera got older, he was still incredible, but he didn't do as well pitching multiple innings or entering mid-inning. He worked the 9th. He was good at it. Other guys were the firemen. Maybe other guys were even better relievers at times. I still think there's probably value for that role. Injury prone guys, older guys, whatever... just handing them the 9th inning allows them to use their skill set. Devin Williams might be that guy, in all honesty. Not everyone is Hader. Melancon could be that guy for the Padres this year.

[Ken]

When Mariano Rivera got older, he was still incredible, but he didn't do as well pitching multiple innings or entering mid-inning. He worked the 9th. He was good at it. Other guys were the firemen.

Is this anecdotal? Just glancing at the data it seems incorrect, but maybe I'm missing it.

[joncarlos]

Is this anecdotal? Just glancing at the data it seems incorrect, but maybe I'm missing it.

Yes, mostly anecdotal, though since he almost never did it, the data might not be there anyway. But that was always the impression that Torre gave - Mo could do Mo things in the playoffs but he wanted him as a 1-inning guy as much as possible to keep him healthy.

[Ken]

Yes, mostly anecdotal, though since he almost never did it, the data might not be there anyway. But that was always the impression that Torre gave - Mo could do Mo things in the playoffs but he wanted him as a 1-inning guy as much as possible to keep him healthy.

Right, I think that was a function of the backwards thinking that your best reliever needed to be in the 9th rather than evidence the shouldn't.

[Pauly]

Anthony Bass sucks a bag of dicks.