Is Derek Jeter Done?

[Judge Jude]

They already had a slightly better career record without him than with him since 1996, even before this injury - which is a coincidence, but yeah, it doesn't strengthen the narrative, either.

[BuckyBuckner]

Jeter hit #3,000 in style with a home run, more importantly as he will say, it ties the game.

[Judge Jude]

Ok, THAT strengthens the narrative!

[BuckyBuckner]

Since coming off the DL Jeter is hitting .295 with 21 RBI in 30 games. He's also 3-3 so far today. Granted 23 K to only 10 BB isn't that great but I don't think he's ever had a really good batting eye. He's also hitting with more authority, 11 of his 36 hits are extra base hits. His season average, including 3-3 so far today, is up to .276.

[revo]

Since coming off the DL Jeter is hitting .295 with 21 RBI in 30 games. He's also 3-3 so far today. Granted 23 K to only 10 BB isn't that great but I don't think he's ever had a really good batting eye. He's also hitting with more authority, 11 of his 36 hits are extra base hits. His season average, including 3-3 so far today, is up to .276.

While it's not a terrible season, he's still on pace for the worst season of his career and, more importantly, he's proven last year was his new ceiling. No more "he'll bounce back" sportsradio stuff.

At this point, the best you can hope for the next two years would be a repeat of this season. The worst would be a complete cliff dive, a la Posada.

[B-Fly]

While it's not a terrible season, he's still on pace for the worst season of his career and, more importantly, he's proven last year was his new ceiling. No more "he'll bounce back" sportsradio stuff.

At this point, the best you can hope for the next two years would be a repeat of this season. The worst would be a complete cliff dive, a la Posada.

Two repeats of this season wouldn't be so bad if they could move him down to the bottom of the order.

What frustrates me is that our rival is trotting out Ellsbury-Pedroia at the top of the lineup while we're trotting out Gardner-Jeter. Gardner-Swisher-Granderson-Teixeira-Rodriguez-Cano-Chavez/Nunez/Jones/Montero-Martin-Jeter works just fine. Then, as a Yankee fan, you can look at the Boston lineup and say, hey, we match up pretty well top to bottom.

[revo]

Two repeats of this season wouldn't be so bad if they could move him down to the bottom of the order.

Why can't they?

If Jeter was the such the team leader he's supposed to be, why doesn't he do what's best for the team and volunteer to bat in the bottom of the order? For two guys supposed to be team leaders in Jeter and Posada, they've really turned out to be egotistical self-centered players, no?

[Judge Jude]

"turned out to be?"

A-Rod was a stellar-fielding SS when he arrived in NY (would not have been a couple of years later, for various reasons). A much better player than Jeter every season of his career, and when he arrived he had much better postseason stats - if intangibles are important - than Jeter. (Unless Jeter helped to acquire those awesome and deep pitching staffs; then, all bets are off.)

(Trivia: A-Rod career OPS is .925, Jeter .850. But I digress.)

If "best for the team" was paramount, you find a position that you can also field semi-adequately, and let A-Rod get to the balls that you couldn't.

Posada has always been a pouty guy, and to be fair it's weird that the guy he fought for playing time with 15 years ago now manages him.

All that said, Jeter is hardly the most selfish player in baseball. They're pretty much all selfish, and understandably so. It's not their fault if the myth-makers try and talk fans out of it.

And in case anyone is confused, Jeter obviously will be a first-ballot Hall of Famer. One of the best 5-6 hitting SSs of all time, given the durability/consistency combo. Unprecedented among lifelong SSs.

[revo]

Posada has always been a pouty guy, and to be fair it's weird that the guy he fought for playing time with 15 years ago now manages him.

Not to get on a Posada tangent, but if he were such a legendary Yankee, why would he allow the team he's been part of for the last 15 years to go three weeks with one less player than everyone else, since he's basically been told he's not going to be used (and they won't release him)? Since there's no way on earth he's a Yank next season, why not do the honorable thing and retire now?

[Judge Jude]

I won't kill Posada for that, either, although of course you have a fair point.

I mentioned earlier in the year that Jeter's best buddy on the road is Posada (Mariano is a nice fellow, but I doubt he leaves his hotel room after a game or even after a practice. Apparently very quiet, very religious. And not claiming any hijinks with married Posada being on the road. Just that they like to unwind, is all).

I don't think that the Yankees, in a commanding spot for the postseason, need to mess with the Jeter-Posada team just yet. How likely is it that a Posada August retirement is the difference between which team wins the division - or which team wins in the first round of the postseason?

I don't think these decisions need to be made, at this point.

Phil Rizzuto famously got cut when, iirc correctly, Casey Stengel laid out the roster and asked who he'd move out to bring in a promising newcomer. Phil, that would be you.

Pro sports are cruel, to everyone, usually.

[chancellor]

Not to get on a Posada tangent, but if he were such a legendary Yankee, why would he allow the team he's been part of for the last 15 years to go three weeks with one less player than everyone else, since he's basically been told he's not going to be used (and they won't release him)? Since there's no way on earth he's a Yank next season, why not do the honorable thing and retire now?

Uhhhh...you do realize the guy in front of him is Eric Chavez, right? The guy who hasn't even been able to play 35 games in a season since 2007? I suspect with Brittleman in front of him, the odds of the Yanks needing Posada again are pretty high.

Plus, why should he give up any Steinbrenner cash? It's up to the Yankees to release him if they don't want him or need him, it's not up to him to quit on his team.

[B-Fly]

Uhhhh...you do realize the guy in front of him is Eric Chavez, right? The guy who hasn't even been able to play 35 games in a season since 2007? I suspect with Brittleman in front of him, the odds of the Yanks needing Posada again are pretty high.

Plus, why should he give up any Steinbrenner cash? It's up to the Yankees to release him if they don't want him or need him, it's not up to him to quit on his team.

I don't think it's fair to expect Posada to retire and give up his rightful contractual rights. That said, I don't see Posada as Chavez's backup anymore. With A-Rod coming back, I think you'll see that Posada is still behind Chavez, Nunez and Jones on the depth chart at DH (or starting in the field to give a regular a breather at DH), and there's also serious talk about adding Montero to the roster in time for him to be post-season eligible.

[revo]

I don't think it's fair to expect Posada to retire and give up his rightful contractual rights. That said, I don't see Posada as Chavez's backup anymore. With A-Rod coming back, I think you'll see that Posada is still behind Chavez, Nunez and Jones on the depth chart at DH (or starting in the field to give a regular a breather at DH), and there's also serious talk about adding Montero to the roster in time for him to be post-season eligible.

Bingo. Posada has fallen so far on the DH depth chart, it would take a bus accident of iCarly proportions to get him some at-bats.

JJ is right in that the Yanks have a commanding WC lead, but leaders are supposed to sacrifice for the team (didn't they ever see Saving Private Ryan? "Earn this. Earn it!"). Jeter should volunteer to move to the bottom of the order if he doesn't hit, and Posada should take one for the team and lay down his arms if all he's doing is holding a clipboard.

[BuckyBuckner]

Bingo. Posada has fallen so far on the DH depth chart, it would take a bus accident of iCarly proportions to get him some at-bats.

JJ is right in that the Yanks have a commanding WC lead, but leaders are supposed to sacrifice for the team (didn't they ever see Saving Private Ryan? "Earn this. Earn it!"). Jeter should volunteer to move to the bottom of the order if he doesn't hit, and Posada should take one for the team and lay down his arms if all he's doing is holding a clipboard.

But Jeter is hitting well right now. part of what makes a major league player so good (and what separates the great from the good) is confidence in themselves that they will get a hit every at bat. In spite of his declining numbers I'm positive that Jeter believes he can get a hit in every at bat. Once he stops thinking that he should just retire, not move to the bottom of the lineup. I'm not saying that if you look at numbers you are wrong but I also don't think you can expect a player to admit defeat like you are suggesting, nor would you want a player to admit defeat.

[revo]

But Jeter is hitting well right now. part of what makes a major league player so good (and what separates the great from the good) is confidence in themselves that they will get a hit every at bat. In spite of his declining numbers I'm positive that Jeter believes he can get a hit in every at bat. Once he stops thinking that he should just retire, not move to the bottom of the lineup. I'm not saying that if you look at numbers you are wrong but I also don't think you can expect a player to admit defeat like you are suggesting, nor would you want a player to admit defeat.

This discussion is not talking about today, but about the next two years.