You CAN assume a double play?

[rhd]

I've watched baseball for a lot of years and I've never heard of this. I watched a college game tonite and on a routine DP ball, after the forceout was recorded at 2B the IFer threw the ball wildly to first. The hitter who reached 1B on the error did not advance. They charged an error on the play. Yeah, it's college, not MLB, but I would expect that the rules in MLB would be the same. Have I been missing something all these years?

[mjl]

Did the ball not go out of play? You only get a base automatically if it goes into dead-ball territory, but I assume you knew that...

[Ken]

Did the ball not go out of play? You only get a base automatically if it goes into dead-ball territory, but I assume you knew that...

His point isnt whether there's an extra base.

It's that in the MLB you don't ever get an error on the back end of a double play because a double play cannot be assumed.

[rhd]

His point isnt whether there's an extra base.

It's that in the MLB you don't ever get an error on the back end of a double play because a double play cannot be assumed.

Yeah, the reason I said that the hitter did not advance to 2B was to show that the error was on the hitter being safe at 1B. Maybe MLB rules are different than those in college. AFAIC, this means college baseball is more advanced than MLB w respect to this rule. Charging an error is w/i the judgment and discretion of the scorer, so why should it be any different for DP balls?

[Redbirds Fan]

Here's the way I understand it. Every base advanced by a runner has to be classified and documented by the scorer. If a batter winds up on second, it is a double, a single with an error, a two-base error, or something odd like a K/SB combo on a wild pitch. (We've all played the game of naming how many ways you can get to first base.)

In the above situation, the scoring would be a fielder's choice. If the runner went to second, it would be a fielder's choice with a one-base error. Since the runner didn't advance, there is no nothing to explain by scoring. Hence, no error.

It's like a runner scoring from third on a fly ball to left field. It's a sac fly. The official scorer doesn't charge an error if he thinks a good throw would have nailed the runner. "Not assuming the double play" is a shorthand way of expressing this concept when applied to a specific situation.

Or so I think.

[rhd]

Here's the way I understand it. Every base advanced by a runner has to be classified and documented by the scorer. If a batter winds up on second, it is a double, a single with an error, a two-base error, or something odd like a K/SB combo on a wild pitch. (We've all played the game of naming how many ways you can get to first base.)

In the above situation, the scoring would be a fielder's choice. If the runner went to second, it would be a fielder's choice with a one-base error. Since the runner didn't advance, there is no nothing to explain by scoring. Hence, no error.

It's like a runner scoring from third on a fly ball to left field. It's a sac fly. The official scorer doesn't charge an error if he thinks a good throw would have nailed the runner. "Not assuming the double play" is a shorthand way of expressing this concept when applied to a specific situation.

Or so I think.

That evidently is not the rule in college ball because an error was charged. IMHO the MLB rule needs to be changed to be like the college rule, which makes much more sense and is more consistent w the other MLB rules.

[Redbirds Fan]

That evidently is not the rule in college ball because an error was charged. IMHO the MLB rule needs to be changed to be like the college rule, which makes much more sense and is more consistent w the other MLB rules.

Okay, I found something that has some bearing on this. If the throw on the back end of a double or triple play is wild, no error is charged to the fielder, essentially for the reasons stated above. However, if throw if muffed by the first baseman, an error is charged to him.

Rule 9.12(d) Comment: When a fielder muffs a thrown ball that, if held, would have completed a double play or triple play, the official scorer shall charge an error to the fielder who drops the ball and credit an assist to the fielder who made the throw.

This is not an NCAA rule, but an MLB rule. I couldn't find an NCAA rule, but I'm still looking.

The original post said the error was charged. Was it charged to the fielder who made the throw or the first baseman? That should help answer the question. In the meantime, I'll keep looking for the NCAA rule.

[Redbirds Fan]

Finally found the NCAA rule. Looks the same as MLB.

3) No player is charged with an error for a poor throw in an attempt to
complete a double play unless the throw is so wild that it permits a runner
to advance an additional base. However, if a player drops a thrown ball
when by holding it he would have completed a double play, it is an error.

[rhd]

Finally found the NCAA rule. Looks the same as MLB.

3) No player is charged with an error for a poor throw in an attempt to
complete a double play unless the throw is so wild that it permits a runner
to advance an additional base. However, if a player drops a thrown ball
when by holding it he would have completed a double play, it is an error.

The throw was not dropped by the 1Bman, it was wild but did not leave the field of play and the runner did not advance. The error was charged on the throw (I forget whether the 2Bman or SS). So if the above is the rule, it appears they didnt follow it. Whatever the case, it makes much more sense to charge an error if a good throw would obviously have resulted in an out.