Rebuild the NY Mets

[chancellor]

Pelfrey to the Royals? This could happen only if Dayton Moore has another of his epic brain cramps. KC has lots of meh guys at the big league level; why give up prospects for more meh?

Given some of Moore's recent brain cramps, I didn't think this was a bad call by revo. Though I think Pelfrey might only bring back one decent prospect instead of two.

[Blue&White]

Why assume these deals are to be made "right now?" The Mets are still in it now. If they made these trades today, there would be a rebellion among season ticket holders.

The assumption is these can/will be trades made in June/July.

If you are defining "it" as fielding a major league baseball team then yes, the Mets are in it. If you are referring to them having a shot at playing baseball in October, there is simply no way. The worst thing the Mets can do is let the year end and have Beltran and Reyes walk without getting anything in return. You want to see the fans revolt, that will cause a revolt. What they should do is sign Reyes but given his age, his injury history, and the fact that the Mets are now borrowing money to make their current payroll there is close to zero chance Reyes will come back.

As for season ticket holders, I think the Mets have made it pretty clear that these people really do not factor in to their decision making process. And, to the extent that they are, the Mets know that a turn around is the only thing that is going to keep these people and bring lost fans back. They can't do that with the current team and they don't have the money to do anything dramatic. So, they have to start rebuilding sooner rather than later.

If I were Alderson, I'd be shopping Reyes and Beltran right now, while they are healthy and playing reasonably well. The longer the season goes on, the greater the chances of something going horribly wrong with one of the them and their trade value for the year reducing to zero. Even if the Mets have to eat most of their 2011 salaries if they can get solid young prospects for the future they are better off. Fans are not going to be happy with the trading of Reyes but they will be irate if he walks away with nothing in return.

[revo]

OK, people, last sentence in the original post:

Let's see what you would do!

[wilbur wood]

I don't like the portfolio of prospects coming back in these deals at all. Low ceiling players for the most part in particular the arms. Not opposed to moving any of these pieces but Sandy/JP/Podesta need to get back some high ceiling propects not all B list guys.

[joncarlos]

OK, people, last sentence in the original post:

Let's see what you would do!

I wrote this up but I don't think it even really helps make the Mets any better. Yeesh, what a mess. Other than maybe Reyes, they don't have anyone who can really bring in elite talent. And that's what they need.

1. Trade Reyes/Pelfrey/Pagan to the Angels for Bourjos, Jean Segura and Kevin Jepsen

I don't think the Reds will pony up for Reyes but I do think the Angels still have some cash and would like to make a deal. If the Angels would throw in Conger instead of Segura, that would be OK too, but I'm not sure.

2. I like your Flowers/FMart deal (assuming that LAA won't give up Conger)

3. Trade Beltran and cash to the Braves for Mike Minor

This may have to be more cash than the Mets can afford, and it's always hard to trade within the division. But the Braves have got Beachy in the 5 spot now and they keep all of their young guns while replacing McLouth's carcass in the outfield.

4. Trade Bay to the Giants for Barry Zito

Crap for crap. This allows Belt to go down to the minors and gives Bay a fresh start somewhere else. Zito will give the Mets innings, if nothing else.

5. Trade Dickey to Boston for Josh Reddick

Reddick gets a chance to play, free from the BOS logjam. The Sawx clearly need more arms.

6. Work out an extension with K-Rod so the ridiculous vesting option isn't hanging over their heads. He would get 1yr/18mil next year if it vests... try to get him to go for 2/25 or something like that. It sucks, but at least you don't have the story any more.

[revo]

6. Work out an extension with K-Rod so the ridiculous vesting option isn't hanging over their heads. He would get 1yr/18mil next year if it vests... try to get him to go for 2/25 or something like that. It sucks, but at least you don't have the story any more.

K-Rod would need 52 more games finished for the option to vest. That one's gonna come down to the wire!


I like the Dickey for Reddick deal, but would Boston want two knucklers on their roster?

[joncarlos]

K-Rod would need 52 more games finished for the option to vest. That one's gonna come down to the wire!

I like the Dickey for Reddick deal, but would Boston want two knucklers on their roster?

In all honesty they might just cut Wakefield if they got another starter.

[joncarlos]

I don't like the portfolio of prospects coming back in these deals at all. Low ceiling players for the most part in particular the arms. Not opposed to moving any of these pieces but Sandy/JP/Podesta need to get back some high ceiling propects not all B list guys.

This is my feeling too. They already have a lot of these guys (Tejada, Thole, Niese, even Ike to some extent). But other than Reyes, who is bringing back A-level talent? Especially when the Mets can't throw in a ton of cash to any deal. In all honesty, the problem in the Minaya regime was that they couldn't get any league-average players to surround their Beltran/Reyes/Wright/Santana core. Can they trade Santana for anything? Probably not.

What is the face of the Mets going forward? Wright, Mejia, and Ike? What else ya got? Harvey may end up a reliever. Havens looks like he'll end up a league average 2B. Even Flores probably doesn't stick at SS, and probably isn't going to be mobile enough for 2B, so he's a 3B or a corner OF.

Is it time to entertain trading Wright and completely blowing it up? I don't think you can do that in NYC. But they've already ceded the next couple years to the Yankees, and if Banuelos/Montero/Betances/Brackman end up being anything then the Yankees also have the edge in young talent.

[revo]

This is my feeling too. They already have a lot of these guys (Tejada, Thole, Niese, even Ike to some extent). But other than Reyes, who is bringing back A-level talent? Especially when the Mets can't throw in a ton of cash to any deal. In all honesty, the problem in the Minaya regime was that they couldn't get any league-average players to surround their Beltran/Reyes/Wright/Santana core. Can they trade Santana for anything? Probably not.

This is the problem. No one besides Wright & perhaps Ike Davis would bring back A-list talent, and neither of them will be dealt. If Reyes has a boffo year, he may be able to bring an A-list prospect, but otherwise, no one else will. Alderson and his team of former GMs have their work cut out for them.

[joncarlos]

This is the problem. No one besides Wright & perhaps Ike Davis would bring back A-list talent, and neither of them will be dealt. If Reyes has a boffo year, he may be able to bring an A-list prospect, but otherwise, no one else will. Alderson and his team of former GMs have their work cut out for them.

Right. I'm not sure if the Mets can afford to get bad enough to get some top 5 draft picks. And until the Madoff thing is resolved, they can't buy elite talent either. So they're kind of stuck. I don't know what the answer is. If they are picking 8th or 10th in the draft they can get some overslot guys that are top 3 talent, but that's not a guarantee and it takes forever to develop those kids anyway.

[ThatRogue]

Right. I'm not sure if the Mets can afford to get bad enough to get some top 5 draft picks. And until the Madoff thing is resolved, they can't buy elite talent either. So they're kind of stuck. I don't know what the answer is. If they are picking 8th or 10th in the draft they can get some overslot guys that are top 3 talent, but that's not a guarantee and it takes forever to develop those kids anyway.

Except that the Mets won't pay over slot. They've consistently resisted doing so, and for the past few years I could not understand why, until now. When the commissioner is arranging and approving loans to keep the team afloat, there is no way ownership ticks him off by paying above slot for draftees.

The team should have added options to the Young and Capuano deals, so that they could benefit if either pitcher reached their upside this season. They also need to take the savings from K-Rod and Beltran's expiring contracts and sign Reyes to a six year extension (working feverishly to get him to take a small hometown discount). By 2013, the rotation could be fronted by Mejia and Johan (if healthy)with Harvey on the way and Parnell as the closer. The position players could be Davis, Havens, Reyes and Wright in the infield, and Flores, Pagan and Puello in the outfield. This would give them a relatively cheap core that gives management some flexibility to add an impact bat at either OF, 1B or 2B...and have something left for the rest of the rotation and the bullpen without breaking the bank.

[Blue&White]

As a Mets fan I think I'm too close to it to offer any real ideas to this but a couple of thoughts on what has been posted:
- I think Beltran for Minor is a great idea. I think it's so great, I'm 100% positive it will never happen.
- Another thing that I think is never going to happen is the Mets resigning Reyes. He is there only real chip to add anything to that farm system and they can't afford to keep him. Plus, given his injury history, he's a guy you can quickly regret signing to a long term deal. I've said for years the Mets can lose just as well without him as they can with him and I think he's pretty much gone. It's just a matter of time.
- If they trade Wright, then they can save a ton of money by firing every single person involved with selling or taking tickets because you won't see another fan in Citi Field this year. People are going to be annoyed if/when Reyes is gone but I think most fans realize that it's inevitable. It will have an impact at the gate attendance but it won't be awful. Trade Wright, the one remaining home-grown stud they really can hang their hat on for a few more years at least, and that stadium will be a ghost town. Even if it's the smart thing to do, even if you can get so much young top talent for him that the deal would be almost crazy to turn down, I don't think the Wilpons will ever agree to trade him prior to him being in a contract year. Plus how many teams struggle with third base? The Mets have the best third baseman in the NL right now and probably a top 3 in all of baseball. It would have to be one amazing offer to even consider moving him and I just don't think, from a business perspective, the Wilpons will ever sign off on it.

For the Mets to really improve there is one change that must happen: new ownership. Without that, this is all academic.

[Roto Rooter]

1. Fred Wilpon sells the team

Doesn't matter whats happens after that

[YourPalChrisMal]

Except that the Mets won't pay over slot. They've consistently resisted doing so, and for the past few years I could not understand why, until now. When the commissioner is arranging and approving loans to keep the team afloat, there is no way ownership ticks him off by paying above slot for draftees.

The team should have added options to the Young and Capuano deals, so that they could benefit if either pitcher reached their upside this season. They also need to take the savings from K-Rod and Beltran's expiring contracts and sign Reyes to a six year extension (working feverishly to get him to take a small hometown discount). By 2013, the rotation could be fronted by Mejia and Johan (if healthy)with Harvey on the way and Parnell as the closer. The position players could be Davis, Havens, Reyes and Wright in the infield, and Flores, Pagan and Puello in the outfield. This would give them a relatively cheap core that gives management some flexibility to add an impact bat at either OF, 1B or 2B...and have something left for the rest of the rotation and the bullpen without breaking the bank.

Speaking of Havens, does anyone know what is status is right now? It doesn't look like he's playing yet. Is he ever going to be healthy?

[Roto Rooter]

Played his first game last night actually: http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/m...uafa_dbcafa_1/

Reese Havens - 2 for 3, 2B (1), 2 BB, 2 RBI (2)