Egypt

[nullnor]

just so you know, it leads the world in female circumcision aka genital mutilation. we're talking 97% or all married females. we're talking over 20 million women. according to world health organizations and human rights groups. ..and then after they are dragged in a subway and raped, they undergo virginity tests.

this is what the Egyptian army is rebelling against and who as a result we are supporting.

.. i don't mean to be emotional or anything, but because of this reason, this is why we support shooting members of the muslim brotherhood down like dogs in the streets.

[johnnya24]

.. i don't mean to be emotional or anything, but because of this reason, this is why we support shooting members of the muslim brotherhood down like dogs in the streets.

The science stuff can be quite funny ... this comment is plain retarded.

[nullnor]

The science stuff can be quite funny ... this comment is plain retarded.

your reply didn't make any sense at all to me.

i like you, but if you mean the science stuff, perhaps you alluding to your secret alex jones BBC colony on the planet mars spying on us from outer space?

it's a mental illness dude. i'll try to help you before it becomes to late.

[nullnor]

it's called paranoia.

[johnnya24]

Yeah ... Let's shoot people like dogs because they are muslims. Seriously?

[nullnor]

Yeah ... Let's shoot people like dogs because they are muslims. Seriously?

nooo because half the country mutilates half the female population's genetails. and that half happens, to right now, be throwing bullets and molotov's at the army.

well you didn't know that more Egyptian women undergo female circumcision than every other woman in the world combined.

..but i misspoke, shooting the guillty down like dogs, is an insult to dogs. dog's are much more honorable beings.

[johnnya24]

I feel reassured that you're not on my side.

[Roto Rooter]

it's a mental illness dude. i'll try to help you before it becomes to late.

This is rich coming from you the guy who sleeps with dead animals for weeks and pets them, but not too much since liquid oozes out.

[nullnor]

Yes, it happens in Egypt. But to accuse the Muslim Brotherhood of being complicit in this is just fucking stupid. Seriously, stop now.

I mean, from your own article: "Egypt's Ministry of Health and Population has banned all forms of female genital mutilation since 2007.[16] The ministry's order declared it is 'prohibited for any doctors, nurses, or any other person to carry out any cut of, flattening or modification of any natural part of the female reproductive system'. Islamic authorities in the nation also stressed that Islam opposes female genital mutilation. The Grand Mufti of Egypt, Ali Gomaa, said that it is "Prohibited, prohibited, prohibited.""

This is like Roto Rooter-level of stupidity here. Again from your own article, the 97% figure was from 2000 --- the Muslim Brotherhood was outlawed at that time.

This is NOT what the Egyptian army are rebelling against (it's almost embarrassing that this needs to be said, it's so obvious).

im just throwing it out there dude. make your own decisions and maybe help me with mine. i tend to think the army is making the better decision for this reason.

of course it's at a point of no turning back. the muslim brotherhood will never accept elections after this. thus you only have one choice but to wipe them out. of course that won't happen. so then you end up with a mini pakistan. one in Egypt where women are still abused as they always were.

[nullnor]

everyone's making fun about me about my cat.

[Roto Rooter]

thats because i know that cats decompose much longer than hookers or random guys off the internet i bury in my basement.

..but just so you know, they sell clear boxes at target that you can put things in, that don't decompose in your face.

on serious note, i'll never get over how my cat died... you think thats funny? then keep messing around. and you'll learn the meaning of a circular saw.

Please tell us more about how it's okay to have decomposing things next to your bed. What I think is funny is that you don't think you're a mentally ill human being.

[nullnor]

I'd forgotten about your cat dying, I just knew they were important to you and that you've talked a lot about them on RJ. I don't think it's cool to make fun of someone because of a dead pet, so my bad if it came across that way.


I don't, however, think it's okay to throw out baseless assertions that "we're" helping hunt down the Muslim Brotherhood like dogs in the street because they are somehow responsible for genital mutilation. Nor is it okay to propose "wiping them out". In fact, that reminds me of the logic that Frank Baum, author of the Oz books, used when he said that since the US had already decimated the Native Americans that the US should "finish the job" and kill all the rest.

The situation in Egypt is fluid and does not fit as neatly into the boxes in which Americans would like to place it. Right now the only thing that's clear is that there is no central reason for deposing Morsy. The notion that he was gittin' too Mooslim works well as a reason for the usual dimwitted suspects but it's just one of a whole spate of notions out there. Frankly, it appears to me that the Egyptian economy has not recovered fast enough since the anti-Mubarek uprising and people are lashing out at the most obvious target.

I give it two months until Egyptians take to the street protesting military rule, just like back in 2011 after Mubarek was deposed.

the economy was gonna take down any of the next guys. and it still may. it's what took down Mubarek. so i guess in that respect, it makes no difference to the female circumcision going on. it'll just keep going on then no matter what. so i guess im the fool. at least they haven't had to practice breast ironing yet.

[senorsheep]

Yes, it happens in Egypt. But to accuse the Muslim Brotherhood of being complicit in this is just fucking stupid.

I'm sure I'll regret getting involved, but I hate to see misinformation like this being spread. Here are a few links for anyone interested in The Muslim Brotherhood's support for female genital mutilation.

Linky 1: The Muslim Brotherhood has shown its contempt for Egypt's women

Last week, Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood issued a strongly-worded statement unabashedly rejecting the draft UN declaration calling for an end to all forms of violence against women. It claims that the declaration contravenes Egypt's "cultural specificity" and would lead to "the complete disintegration of society" if ratified. Needless to say, the statement has fueled the anger of Egyptians, especially women.

...

The Brotherhood probably felt impelled to send a not-so-covert threat to Egyptian women. Throughout the past seven months, Egypt's rulers have done their utmost to take women out of the political equation, as their active participation in protests has become a real headache for the Morsi regime. The statement seems to have been conceived in response to their mounting pressure and the vocal opposition, and intended to reassert the dominance and power of the Brotherhood. The subtext of the statement is that the new regime has no intention of respecting the rights of women enshrined in the international agreements to which Egypt is a signatory.

...

The systematic sexual harassment of female protesters and the violence experienced not only by women demonstrators but also by ordinary women going about their business on the streets have become a daily occurrence. In the face of growing violence, however, women have remained adamant and defiant.

...

The Brotherhood and its offspring, the presidency, never considered violence against women to be an important issue, even when they said otherwise. Their support of female genital mutilation (FGM) is just one example. Attempts were made in the short-lived Islamist-dominated parliament to decriminalise it and if it hadn't been for the vocal opposition of women, the legislation might have passed. When Morsi was once asked about his views on the subject, instead of clearly and unambiguously condemning the practice, he said that it was a decision that should be left to the family concerned. Thus the brutal cutting up of a piece of a girl's flesh was treated by him with the same kind of callous indifference as the decision to go for a family picnic.

... Linky 2: http://www.opendemocracy.net/5050/ma...egyptian-women

The Muslim Brotherhood, who have a track record in community outreach through services and goods, have added a new service for Egyptians: circumcising girls for a nominal fee. The practice of female genital mutilation (FGM) or female circumcision as it is popularly called, involves the removal of the clitoris and part of the labia minora under the pretext that this will protect a girl’s chastity. FGM, although practiced for thousands of years, has been on the decline in the past decade thanks to a socially sensitive and nationwide campaign to show that FGM is neither religiously prescribed, nor linked to a woman’s moral behaviour. Thanks to the Muslim Brotherhood and the Salafis, the progress made in eliciting positive social change on curbing the practice now risks being reversed.

...

In the village of Abou Aziz, Minya, a young person phoned the child rights hotline to report that female circumcision was going to be offered by the passing mobile health clinic. The governor of Minya investigated the matter and warned that since the child rights law criminalizes the practice of FGM, legal action would be taken against the Freedom and Justice party if their health clinic undertook such illegal activity. The Muslim Brotherhood’s response was to deny that their mobile health clinic had ever offered such a service and to claim that the Brothers are being vilified by a hostile press who are spreading rumours that have no basis in reality... However, I have obtained the flyer that the Freedom and Justice party posted on the streets in the village of Abou Aziz. While the Freedom and Justice party denied that female circumcision was ever offered by the clinic, the information on the flyers suggests otherwise.

...

In view of the political standing of the Muslim Brotherhood and their religious influence among many Egyptians, there is no denying that the impact of their promotion of FGM is deep and far reaching. Whether girls were circumcised or not on the 20th of April is not the point: what is at issue here is their propagation of a practice that has been proven to be detrimental to women's well being and bodily integrity. The Brotherhood’s strategy to undermine the national campaign to end FGM is three-pronged.

Firstly, they contest the notion that the practice is not religiously prescribed. Many of the Brothers (and Salafis) argue that while it is not mandatory, it is nevertheless mukarama (preferable, pleasing in the eyes of God). They also quote hadith (saying attributed to the Prophet) which stipulates that FGM should involve “cutting, but only lightly”. Renowned Egyptian Islamist scholars such as Mohammed Emara and Mohammed Selim el Awa (the latter a presidential hopeful) have written and publicly endorsed the position that FGM is not an Islamic practice, and that there is nothing in Islamic jurisprudence to endorse it - most Muslim countries, including Saudi Arabia, do not practice FGM. However, among the Muslim Brotherhood rank and file there is no consensus on rejecting the practice. In 2006, when I asked former Supreme Guide Mahdi Akef what the current position of the Brotherhood was on the permissibility of female circumcision, he said the question was shallow and their position on FGM is inconsequential in the light of the grander, more pressing political matters afflicting Egypt today. Today Egypt is at a critical juncture in its history, more so than at any other time in the past forty years, and yet the issue is on the Muslim Brothers’ agenda and is promoted through mobile health clinics.

The second strategy of the Brothers to contest the undesirability of FGM is to present it as a medical operation or procedure. By doing so, they encourage people to go to doctors - rather than midwives - who will perform the “operation” under anaesthesia and in accordance with proper surgical procedures. The fact that FGM does not exist in any medical textbook as a procedure, and that conversely, medical research has shown its negative medical implications is, of course, kept out of the debate. One of the most effective resistance strategies to undermine efforts to stop the practice has been to medicalize it. Some people talk about taking their daughters to the doctor to check whether “they need it or not”, as if there is a physiological condition that would justify mutilating a woman’s reproductive organs. In many instances, the Brothers have combined the medical with the religious argument to make the case for female circumcision. In 1981, the late Sheikh Mohammed Khateeb, the Muslim Brotherhood’s former Mufti, issued a fatwa in which he said "When Islam arrived, it approved this operation for males and females." (italics mine). While el Khattib maked reference to a hadith to substantiate the circumcision of males, for females, he also assumed a medical position, "there have been diverse views on circumcision. Some (views) see female circumcision as a religious duty for males and females, some see it as a sunna, and some see it as a requirement for males and not females, and that for females it is a mukarama (preferable, pleasing in the sight of God). Some doctors believe that not circumcising females leads to sexual arousal and that this could lead to the committing unlawful acts. So circumcision is a duty for the protection of the honour of the believing woman and for the preservation of her chastity and purity…..".

The third strategy deployed by the Brothers to promote FGM is to push for its decriminalization, under the premise that it is a matter that should be left to the personal choice of the girls’ guardians. In parliament the Muslim Brotherhood had objected to the criminalization of the practice under the Child Law passed in 2008 which imposes a prison penalty for whoever circumcises a girl. Farid Ismail and other Muslim Brotherhood MPs expressed their opposition to the criminalization of female circumcision, arguing that it is permissible under the Shari‘a to circumcise one’s daughter and that “the decision is up to the guardian and the doctor who decides on the extent to which the girl needs this operation”. The Muslim Brotherhood MPs are in favour of “organizing” rather than criminalizing circumcision. Leaving the decision as a matter of choice is also the position that is currently being expressed by Muslim Brotherhood female MP, Azza Garaf.

Bottom line: It's still happening in Egypt, and The Muslim Brotherhood is a big part of the problem. As stupid as it is to honk about shooting down Muslims like dogs in the street, it's no wiser to ignore the truth about where The Muslim Brotherhood stands on FGM and women's rights.

[onejayhawk]

I am on el D's side of a social argument. Be very afraid.

Another conjuction is not expected this decade.

J

[Frank]

The Muslim Brotherhood = Drone Targets of Oppertunity