Verizon Customer?

[Moonlight J]

well that didn't take long ...



Secret collection of phone records foiled terror attack in U.S., says lawmaker

same thing we heard in 2006-2008 when one side bitched about it and the other defended the policy. Now, those tables are somewhat turned.

Personally, didn't care for it then, don't care for it now, but I don't do anything wrong. I'm a Verizon customer because it's the best service and I'm not leaving it over this because I need to have reliable signal for what I do.

[johnnya24]

YEAH! Just gets even better

NSA taps in to internet giants' systems to mine user data, secret files reveal

The National Security Agency has obtained direct access to the systems of Google, Facebook, Apple and other US internet giants, according to a top secret document obtained by the Guardian.

The NSA access is part of a previously undisclosed program called PRISM, which allows them to collect material including search history, the content of emails, file transfers and live chats, the document says.

The Guardian has verified the authenticity of the document, a 41-slide PowerPoint presentation – classified as top secret with no distribution to foreign allies – which was apparently used to train intelligence operatives on the capabilities of the program. The document claims "collection directly from the servers" of major US service providers.

Although the presentation claims the program is run with the assistance of the companies, all those who responded to a Guardian request for comment on Thursday denied knowledge of any such program.

[johnnya24]

[Bob Kohm]

Not to piss all over the party here, but can someone explain to me how this is in any material way different than ECHELON, which we've known about since what, 2001? I mean besides the involvement of the smarmy Glenn Greenwald, of course.

[chancellor]

Not to piss all over the party here, but can someone explain to me how this is in any material way different than ECHELON, which we've known about since what, 2001? I mean besides the involvement of the smarmy Glenn Greenwald, of course.

Conceptually? Not much, though ECHELON was targeted rather than blanket. ECHELON was limited to satellite and switched phone traffic, and also lacked the data storage capacity of what's used now. One could argue that ECHELON would have been used the same way if it had the capacity/capability of the existing systems; so while ECHELON could target any sat/phone traffic, it could not target all traffic.

Greenwald may be smarmy, but to his credit, he's remained consistent on privacy issues over the last two administrations. I agree with him simply because both administrations have been staffed with arrogant, venal, corrupt fools who simply can't be trusted with such information.

[Pogues]

I'm seeing all sorts of hypocrisy from the wailing right wing now that it's not their guy doing this fucking crap, though.

We, as a citizenship, will never get anywhere with this attitude. I'm pretty sure I'm not the first to say this in this thread, but you think a group of intelligent men could come together...just one time...on something that we all agree sucks balls.

[Pogues]

Are you speaking of RJ members? Pretty sure everyone, for the most part, has been in agreement about this. If you're speaking of my attitude I have no idea what you mean. My point was that Dubya started this bullshit and Obama has continued and even expanded it. For someone, anyone, to get pissed at one but not the other is hypocritical. Capiche?

Are you this angry of a person in real life, or just come across that way on RJ?

Your words said something different the first time around, coming across as an attack on Right Wingers on RJ who were silent 7 years ago, but aren't now. If that's not what you meant, then I misunderstood your angry rant.

[Pogues]

Stop being such a whiny little victim.

Yes, right wingers who said nothing 7 years ago but are complaining now are hypocrites. So I guess we as a "citizenship" will never get anywhere so long as people point that out or something.


:eyerollsmiley:

Yeah...I'll stop.

I love you

Better?

[johnnya24]

PRISM make the Verizon article look like childs play ... and of course all the tech firms involved (who supposedly champion internet freedom) are denying all knowledge.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/07/prism-tech-giants-shock-nsa-data-mining

Two different versions of the PRISM scandal were emerging on Thursday with Silicon Valley executives denying all knowledge of the top secret program that gives the National Security Agency direct access to the internet giants' servers.

The eavesdropping program is detailed in the form of PowerPoint slides in a leaked NSA document, seen and authenticated by the Guardian, which states that it is based on "legally-compelled collection" but operates with the "assistance of communications providers in the US."

Each of the 41 slides in the document displays prominently the corporate logos of the tech companies claimed to be taking part in PRISM.

However, senior executives from the internet companies expressed surprise and shock and insisted that no direct access to servers had been offered to any government agency.]

The top-secret NSA briefing presentation set out details of the PRISM program, which it said granted access to records such as emails, chat conversations, voice calls, documents and more. The presentation the listed dates when document collection began for each company, and said PRISM enabled "direct access from the servers of these US service providers: Microsoft, Yahoo, Google, Facebook, Paltalk, AOL, Skype, YouTube, Apple".

Apple have "apparently" never even heard of PRISM ... which doesn't fit with stories suggesting that senior officials in these firms knew about it, but were "unaware" that they were extracting such data or the extent of the illegal surveillance ... which is utter bullcrap. No way you cannot notice such a vast amount of data going out the back door.

And for those saying "why are you so surprised, we all knew it was going on" ... no we didn't "know". Just because it's rumored, or put in a movie or TV script for dramatic effect, and just because it's believable (and possible), doesn't mean that it's actually going on. Even if you take it back a step, and the authorities could access your details without a court order ... that's bad enough. But this is a whole other thing. This is Stalinist Russia reborn into the tech age.

I never seriously believed that this was going on, although I can't say I'm that shocked given what else has gone on. For every movie like Enemy of the State, there is a show like The Wire. Recall how difficult it was for them to get a wire tap? All the hoops they had to jump through, the mountains of paper work for one little wire tap that only last 30 days (then more mountains of paperwork to get it extended), even though they were known criminals. They eventually had to do illegal wire taps.

Sadly this is only the third worst assault on democracy and freedom in the last 15 years. I despair that I will have to answer to my kids and grandkids about "my generation", and how we let all this shit happen unopposed.

[Long John]

Maybe I'm a bit too cynical or maybe I just haven't had my coffee yet, but I read all this and I can't understand why anyone's a) surprised or b) upset.

I've always just assumed the government could read/hear any electronic communication I've ever made in my life. Regardless of administration, I don't like it and I think it's a ridiculous invasion of privacy, but I just have too many other thing to worry about that I can actually do something about and/or effect change against.

Can anyone present a surefire solution for changing this? No?!?! Then what's the big uproar. Realize that you'll never be able to electronically plot to blow up the world and do what I do - commit it to paper.

[johnnya24]

Maybe I'm a bit too cynical or maybe I just haven't had my coffee yet, but I read all this and I can't understand why anyone's a) surprised or b) upset.

I've always just assumed the government could read/hear any electronic communication I've ever made in my life. Regardless of administration, I don't like it and I think it's a ridiculous invasion of privacy, but I just have too many other thing to worry about that I can actually do something about and/or effect change against.

Can anyone present a surefire solution for changing this? No?!?! Then what's the big uproar. Realize that you'll never be able to electronically plot to blow up the world and do what I do - commit it to paper.

No offense intended LJ.

... but I hate this attitude ... and I think it sadly reflects the state of society today. It's the reason that the shit of the last 15 years has basically gone on unopposed, and its also the reason why the people behind these deeds feel they can act with impunity. I personally blame the people (all of us) more than I blame Bush Obama Blair et al. If you leave your stuff out for someone to steal, you can only really blame yourself. We've left our freedom and individual liberty in the front yard ... it's ridiculous to sit and blame someone else. We let all this shit happen because of this kind of attitude because of this kind of apathy and can't-be-arse-ed-ness.

Yes we can do something about it. Pretty simple actually. The govt should not have access to personal private data unless they have probably cause of illegality that warrants them having that data. Any data they collected should be destroyed, and only legal channels (designed to protect individual liberty from the improper exorcising of power) should be allowed.

Individual liberty is a fundamental tenet of Western Liberal Democracy. My data is my private property. My movements and business and my private affairs are no-one's business as long as I'm not breaking any laws. This is what it's all based on. Not voting or elections. The primacy of private property is more fundamental than even elections, which these days are nothing more than a rubber stamp. It's a founding principle, and this is a subversion of that principle to the extent that we have to start asking ourselves whether this is actually a liberal democracy anymore. There used to be a thing called civil disobiedience, protest etc. ... it's impossible to get people away from their TV's long enough to raise any kind of public ire. Nowadays the likes of Bradley Manning are criminalized, ostracized, vilified ... why? because he blew the whistle on some of these lies that we all just roll over and bare our tummy for.

You're the reason this shit is happening ... I'm the reason it's happening ... we all are ... and we will all have to answer for it one day. We've already paid for it.

But what I hate is people saying ... "what can I do about it". Well that's what they depend on ... people not giving a shit enough to do anything. They simply bunker down, wait for the hullabaloo to die down (or create something else to distract the attention of the news and ergo public opinion). This kind of apathy is like a disease.

[TranaGreg]

well said johnny.

bread and circuses.

[Moonlight J]

WaPo changing their latest story

http://thenextweb.com/us/2013/06/07/wapost-backtracks-on-claim-tech-companies-participate-knowingly-in-prism-data-collection/?utm_source=Twitter

[Moonlight J]

People bitching about their privacy = same people who hop on free wifi networks without a second thought.


Some serious disconnect there....

[johnnya24]

WaPo changing their latest story

http://thenextweb.com/us/2013/06/07/...source=Twitter

That's the lawyers. Scared of getting sued down the line when the public interest moves back to Kim Kardasian.

... or they got a phone call from high up.

... or both.