REM Draft Discussion Thread

[joncarlos]

I've been passing on She Just Wants To Be for about 4 rounds now thinking that I'd still be able to get it.

I think this is one of the most under appreciated R.E.M. songs out there.

That's the song I was talking about with an amazing live version (I think it's the one you posted) but a studio version that I just don't like.

[Lucky]

Okay, so here's what I think:

First, I've been in all the music drafts, so far as I know. Beatles, Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Bowie, Neil Young, Songs of the Rock Era, Funk/R&B, etc. In every one of the artist drafts, it got to be pretty slim pickings toward the end. I mean, the die-hards could find nuggets, but there wasn't a lot of depth. Hell, with Zep there were fewer than 90 to pick from, and only 73 from the eight legit albums. But here I am, looking for what will be the next-to-last pick, and I am totally stumped. There are a ton of songs I would be totally happy to have round out my album...not something to hide away, like a Ringo composition, but something to highlight. REM was amazingly deep, and the quality of songs on each album was extraordinary compared to the industry. (Not as crazy about the post-Up, but there are still a dozen or so I would be happy to have.)

Second, in going back and listening to everything carefully and through cans, I am completely convinced that Mike Mills and Peter Buck were amazing musicians...truly gifted...whose brilliance was reigned in to a large extent by the band's format/genre. I'm not saying they weren't great playing REM songs, I'm just saying they could have played different types of music and been much more highly regarded as instrumentalists. I like the way Buck moved away from the Jetglo/Vox sound to get some heavy sounds on Monster. His use of effects is very tasteful. He reminds me in some ways of The Edge...playing very much within the song and creating the background for the soundscape. Mills is a great pocket player, who also is good with using limited effects, a mild overdrive for the most part, so far as I can tell. I know some of you have the Hindu Love Gods release...would you recommend it?

Third, I may have to have a thirteenth "hidden" track on my REM compilation. I'm pretty sure this falls under the rules, construed liberally.

[Long John]

Third, I may have to have a thirteenth "hidden" track on my REM compilation. I'm pretty sure this falls under the rules, construed liberally.

Thirteenth, Fourteenth, Fifteenth... I'm having problems narrowing down my last pick. I'm down with a hidden track.

[Long John]

Who wins a freak-out dance off between Michael Stipe and Thom Yorke?

Yorke

[Erik]

One of the main things I have gotten out of this draft is tremendous respect for Mike Mills. More often than not, his bass parts are what hook me into a song.

I also came to the conclusion that in general I prefer Peter Buck's '90s and '00s work to his '80s work (save for a few things like Begin the Begin), but that's just my personal tastes. As time went on he got more Neil Young and less Roger McGuinn.

[johnnya24]

Okay, so here's what I think:

First, I've been in all the music drafts, so far as I know. Beatles, Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Bowie, Neil Young, Songs of the Rock Era, Funk/R&B, etc. In every one of the artist drafts, it got to be pretty slim pickings toward the end. I mean, the die-hards could find nuggets, but there wasn't a lot of depth. Hell, with Zep there were fewer than 90 to pick from, and only 73 from the eight legit albums. But here I am, looking for what will be the next-to-last pick, and I am totally stumped. There are a ton of songs I would be totally happy to have round out my album...not something to hide away, like a Ringo composition, but something to highlight. REM was amazingly deep, and the quality of songs on each album was extraordinary compared to the industry. (Not as crazy about the post-Up, but there are still a dozen or so I would be happy to have.)

Second, in going back and listening to everything carefully and through cans, I am completely convinced that Mike Mills and Peter Buck were amazing musicians...truly gifted...whose brilliance was reigned in to a large extent by the band's format/genre. I'm not saying they weren't great playing REM songs, I'm just saying they could have played different types of music and been much more highly regarded as instrumentalists. I like the way Buck moved away from the Jetglo/Vox sound to get some heavy sounds on Monster. His use of effects is very tasteful. He reminds me in some ways of The Edge...playing very much within the song and creating the background for the soundscape. Mills is a great pocket player, who also is good with using limited effects, a mild overdrive for the most part, so far as I can tell. I know some of you have the Hindu Love Gods release...would you recommend it?

Third, I may have to have a thirteenth "hidden" track on my REM compilation. I'm pretty sure this falls under the rules, construed liberally.

When I was deciding on the number of rounds, I first thought 10 ... then I went though all the albums and it was: that whole record is draftable, that also, that too, that, that, that ... etc etc

I'll make a playlist of undrafted songs when we're done ... it's gonna be pretty damn good.

[johnnya24]

Yorke

The other Lotus ... there's a few Stipe moves in here:

[Long John]

The other Lotus ... there's a few Stipe moves in here:

Definitely.

Btw, you're up, I believe.

[Erik]

Leaving New York was probably gonna be my last pick. Yes, it has arguably Stipe's worst lyric in its chorus, "Leaving was never my proud" (which Mills begged him to change, to no avail), but it's got a gorgeous melody and a haunted beauty. It's much better heard by itself than in the context of the album, which mostly consists of lesser versions of the same type of thing.

[Fresno Bob]

Who wins a freak-out dance off between Michael Stipe and Thom Yorke?

Peter Garrett crushes them both....

[johnnya24]

Leaving New York was probably gonna be my last pick. Yes, it has arguably Stipe's worst lyric in its chorus, "Leaving was never my proud" (which Mills begged him to change, to no avail), but it's got a gorgeous melody and a haunted beauty. It's much better heard by itself than in the context of the album, which mostly consists of lesser versions of the same type of thing.

It wasn't atypical of Michael Stipe to turn adjectives into nouns. It's a lyric that stuck with me from the moment I first heard the song, precisely because it was ungrammatical ... "is he saying proud there". I think it's one of his most interesting songs he wrote, and the lyric adds to it IMO. The grammar Nazis hate it, because an adjective is an adjective. Personally I always looked for any loophole I could find to break rigid grammatical rules ... you can't start a sentence with "And" or "But", you can't do this, you can't do that ... blah. Fuck em

You are totally right about the melody and haunted beauty ... I can listen to that song on repeat for hours. I can't believe there is one song especially that may not get drafted ... especially as the video is also awesome.

[johnnya24]

Peter Garrett crushes them both....

Ian Curtis ... although his dance style was derived from his epilepsy.

[Long John]

LJ proudly presents

REM: Spective

Intro Side
1. Strange
2. Monty Got A Raw Deal
3. Accelerate
4. Circus Envy
5. Turn You Inside Out

Retro Side
6. Moral Kiosk
7. 1,000,000
8. What If We Give It Away
9. Little America
10. Shaking Through
11. I Believe
12. West of the Fields

REM: Spective on Spotify

[Lucky]

One of the main things I have gotten out of this draft is tremendous respect for Mike Mills. More often than not, his bass parts are what hook me into a song.

I also came to the conclusion that in general I prefer Peter Buck's '90s and '00s work to his '80s work (save for a few things like Begin the Begin), but that's just my personal tastes. As time went on he got more Neil Young and less Roger McGuinn.

Extremely perspicacious. That 80s sound was the jangly Rick with the Vox amp, but he used some Teles and LPs in studio work after that. He mostly took the Rick to stage, but I think that was a lot to do with image.

I talked a lot about Buck, but that shouldn't be construed to mean I don't love Mike Mills. When I say "pocket player", I don't mean it in a demeaning way. Pocket players are some of the best bassists of all time. Lately I've been listening to a lot of Willie Weeks, and there just aren't many who could work the pocket like that. The Funk Brothers had some outstanding pocket players as well. Even Bootsy, when he played with JB, stayed in the pocket.

I realize that nobody will agree with this, but IMO the bass player is the one who sets the stage for the song. He/she drives it, gives it its feel, its backbone. Playing just ahead of the beat, just behind the beat, or dead center can change the entire mood of the piece. To me, the bass player is like a good catcher in baseball...none of the glory, but involved in every single play and indispensable to team success.

[Lucky]

I haven't seen Radiohead (my bad), but I was amazed when I saw REM. I had heard that Stipe was a little stand-offish. But he talked between every song, played with the audience, and danced his ass off all night.

BTW, what was the deal during when Stipe started carrying that Les Paul out on stage with him? Did he ever actually play it? I know he played synth on a couple of things. When I saw him, he came out alone with an acoustic and tried to play a couple of Pearl Jam songs. Finally, Mike Mills had to come out with an acoustic and bail him out.