Oscar Pistorius Shoots Girlfriend Dead

[Pogues]

So my friend managed to not at all respond to my point, while conjuring up popular talking points that are in themselves inflammatory and not well developed arguments in themselves. Teachers with a gun in every class would be a mess. And 2nd amendment right of a well regulated militia having the right to bear arms has nothing to do with the NRA position of everyone should be able to have an AK47 and to argue otherwise are fighting words.

On bright side, the lunacy of status quo seems to becoming more clear to more and more people.

Teachers having guns in schools....hrm. On the surface, I could see how some would say that's a good idea. However, I doubt it'd make a huge difference. The teachers would have to be trained to the max on handling, firing with accuracy...and not just anyone can shoot another person. Hell, I was in the military and around assault rifles and handguns every day, and I still am unsure I could ever shoot at anyone.

Regardless of what would be necessary to allow teachers to be armed, if some nutcase wants to go into a school and start shooting, how many kids could he or she hit before being taken out? It's not as if shooters are going into schools with stealth. They go in, shoot like hell, and in most instances, end up dead.

Perhaps the knowledge that every teacher has a weapon would stop them...but these are not rational and sane people.

Just thinking out loud...with my hands.

[johnnya24]

Turns out Pistorius was a violence prone nutcase. Exactly the kind of guy you wouldn't want owning a gun. But there's no way any vetting body could have been aware of this ... well not until it's too late of course. He has no history of mental illness, no convictions, is a popular public figure etc. He'd have no issues getting any firearm he pleased ... and yet all the evidence shows he is easily enraged, acts rashly without properly thinking of the consequences, gets into regular public and private spats including serious threatening remarks. A hot head with a short fuse.

How exactly do you vet people accurately? Not giving weapons to ex-cons and mental patients should be a given, that's a no-brainer. But what's the point of vetting new applicants if you're not going to continually vet everyone who has received a license, and/or has close access to a weapon licensed by someone else such as another member of a household? (like the Newtown massacre).

If you accept that America is so badly infested with weapons that there is no chance of removing the root cause, which is the only way to deal with the problem, how do you go about properly vetting new applicants, AND what measures should be put in place for removing weapons from people after-the-fact (surely that is just as important?). Anyone who gets convicted on any crime or displays some characteristic that would cause them to fail a new application (mental health issues for instance) should have their license and weapon revoked. Right? What's the point otherwise?

Also, shouldn't you also be vetting other/new members of a household where a weapon has been licensed? If a husband or wife have a history or characteristics that would fail a test, or a teenager displays serious anti-social behavior at school, shouldn't this also be just reason for revoking a license and ordering the license holder to turn over the weapon? Shouldn't all members of a household be vetted regularly?

Do you go down the line of giving people brain scans? Amoral nutcases and serial-type killers almost all share the same lack of activity in their frontal cortex's (the part of the brain that deals with empathy and emotion). Of course not all people with this trait go on to become killers, but IMO, it is a just reason to prevent anyone, or any household from owning or procuring a weapon.

This is all just politics and spin. All bullshit. There has been a huge disaster the raises the public ire, Obama and co have to be seen to be doing something. The net effect will be close to zero. It will soon be forgotten, and some other issue will take precedence.

Cognitive dissonance ... the disease of our culture ... just give anything a little bit of time and we'll all happily forget about it like it never happened. As a society, we just don't want to deal with hard problems and hard truths ... so we just shut our eyes, and wait for the din to subside.

[johnnya24]

... but Pistorius's defense lawyer is tearing stripes off the lead detective. Looks like the police have really dropped the ball on this investigation. One of the prosecution team were heard saying, "We're in terrible trouble".

That changed in a hurry!

[JudeBaldo]

... but Pistorius's defense lawyer is tearing stripes off the lead detective. Looks like the police have really dropped the ball on this investigation. One of the prosecution team were heard saying, "We're in terrible trouble".

That changed in a hurry!

And a terrible move to go for premeditated. I understand that the charge can be reduced but seems like swinging for the fences when a hitting in the gap would do the job.

[johnnya24]

And a terrible move to go for premeditated. I understand that the charge can be reduced but seems like swinging for the fences when a hitting in the gap would do the job.

Yeah ... plus they had to use a lot of semantics to justify the premeditated charge. Always seemed to me like a domestic that got out of control. The way they argued for premeditation, almost every shooting would be premeditated except accidental shootings.

[Hornsby]

I'm not about to make too many judgement calls yet, I doubt that anyone here knows the ins and outs of the South African justice system. Maybe premeditation has a different standard over there than it does here or in the British Isles.

Apparently it was the Magistrate who decided to up the charges to premeditation, according to CNN. It's described as a way to buttress the argument against granting bail. But it's supposedly something that can be reduced if newer evidence comes to light.

[johnnya24]

I'm not about to make too many judgement calls yet, I doubt that anyone here knows the ins and outs of the South African justice system. Maybe premeditation has a different standard over there than it does here or in the British Isles.

Apparently it was the Magistrate who decided to up the charges to premeditation, according to CNN. It's described as a way to buttress the argument against granting bail. But it's supposedly something that can be reduced if newer evidence comes to light.

The prosecution convinced the judge yesterday that it falls under the SAF understanding of premeditation (the argument seemed to be that intent = premeditation), but I also read somewhere that he is allowed to change that determination before the end of the bail hearing if he sees fit.

The feeling was that the Judge was not convinced that such a famous person, with prosthetic legs would be a serious flight risk. He was apparently raising his eyebrows in disbelief when the policeman was saying that he adamantly believed that Pistorius would be a flight risk.

The defense were far better prepared than the prosecution here, and the policeman was made to concede almost all the defenses key points when pressed. In fairness ... the specifics of this case are being argued incredibly quickly after the event.

[bryanbutler]

the defense always seems to be better funded, more prepared, and more able, in these high profile cases...

[Hornsby]

the defense always seems to be better funded, more prepared, and more able, in these high profile cases...

They're not necessarily more able or prepared, but certainly better funded in just about any high profile case. Another thing that that the defense does that the prosecution rarely does is play to the press...often times the press will spin it so it looks like the defense is knocking it out of the park, when in fact the opposite may be true.

[Lucky]

Is a world class sprinter a flight risk? Easy to recognize, hard to catch.

In the U.S., the prosecution is very limited in what they can say to the media about a case, whereas the defense (even they they have some rules, too) often tries its case in the press. You almost never see a defense attorney disciplined for violating the rules, while the prosecutors are often made to follow the spirit and letter.

[johnnya24]

The lead detective, Botha, who got tore apart yesterday ... well turns out that he's up on 7 counts of attempted murder. The prosecution claims they had no knowledge of this when they called him. The Judge still wants him on the witness stand, even though Botha is apparently reluctant.

... you couldn't script this fiasco.