Horrible fall out from CT shooting.

[Gregg]

One of my wife's friends picked up her 4th grade daughter from school. They talked about the shooting. Her school has locked doors and people need to be buzzed in. The class room has a plan (and practiced) for the kids to go and huddle in the corner in the event of an intruder.

The girl said "Mommy I am the tallest and I sit in the back. When we huddle I am on the outside so I will be shot first."

[johnnya24]

I think I've heard it all now. The Huddle Plan. What are the odds of a murder suicide psycho breaking into a random school and murdering kids? 1 in a million? 1 in 10 million? More danger of a satellite falling out of the sky and hitting the school.

Aside from the stupidity of needlessly scaring the sh!t out of the kids, what a stupid plan ... you could also call this the fish in a barrel plan.

[swampdragon]

In my school during a lockdown
we turn out the lights
close the blinds
lock the doors
hide behind the large science teaching station.

In a real situation I would probably put my kids in my very large storage closet - but in a drill there is no way that I am packing a bunch of 8th graders in a closet

I would also defend the students however I could.

[johnnya24]

What next? How about airplane style escape chutes and emergency exits in every classroom. Every classroom must be convertible to a safe room ... impenetrable doors, prison style locks, bullet proof glass, reinforced concrete walls, direct hotlines to local police etc

How about just get rid of all the guns? All of them.

[Fresno Bob]

In my school during a lockdown
we turn out the lights
close the blinds
lock the doors
hide behind the large science teaching station.

In a real situation I would probably put my kids in my very large storage closet - but in a drill there is no way that I am packing a bunch of 8th graders in a closet

I would also defend the students however I could.

And that's all any parent or student could ever ask of you, Swamp....

[B-Fly]

Huddling isn't intended as a defense against a shooter in the room, but rather a tactic intended to increase the chance that a shooter ignores the room thinking it empty. I agree that we need to balance the potentially negative psychological impact of "lockdown drills" on young children against the risk of attack and the benefits of drilling, but I'm not as confident as johnny that the cost-benefit analysis weighs against any drilling. While the risk of a mass shooting incident in any given school may indeed be small, I don't think it's reasonable to presume that most kids have no awareness/fear of such a risk and that it's just drilling that puts it in their heads. Certainly most high school and middle school kids and a reasonably large number of elementary school kids are exposed to media coverage of such incidents on the internet, TV or radio, either first-hand or second-hand via peers, siblings, etc. Drilling can actually provide kids with some comfort that their fears aren't being ignored and that the grownups have plans to protect them (as best they can, obviously). So that's above and beyond whatever benefits drilling would bring in the event an incident actually occurs.

[B-Fly]

It's morbid to even think about, but I wonder whether, upon learning that a shooter is in the school building, it might make more sense to have all of the kids stand backs against the wall on the side of the classroom with the door and, if the shooter gets through the locked door, all rush and tackle him at the knees.

[Gregg]

Huddling isn't intended as a defense against a shooter in the room, but rather a tactic intended to increase the chance that a shooter ignores the room thinking it empty. I agree that we need to balance the potentially negative psychological impact of "lockdown drills" on young children against the risk of attack and the benefits of drilling, but I'm not as confident as johnny that the cost-benefit analysis weighs against any drilling. While the risk of a mass shooting incident in any given school may indeed be small, I don't think it's reasonable to presume that most kids have no awareness/fear of such a risk and that it's just drilling that puts it in their heads. Certainly most high school and middle school kids and a reasonably large number of elementary school kids are exposed to media coverage of such incidents on the internet, TV or radio, either first-hand or second-hand via peers, siblings, etc. Drilling can actually provide kids with some comfort that their fears aren't being ignored and that the grownups have plans to protect them (as best they can, obviously). So that's above and beyond whatever benefits drilling would bring in the event an incident actually occurs.

I agree with all of this.

I am so sad that this young tall girl would realize that she would be the first target.

I am not so sure that adults with guns is not closely related to doing a drill. Both are to calm fears. Maybe both won't be needed, and maybe both are not effective.

[johnnya24]

It's morbid to even think about, but I wonder whether, upon learning that a shooter is in the school building, it might make more sense to have all of the kids stand backs against the wall on the side of the classroom with the door and, if the shooter gets through the locked door, all rush and tackle him at the knees.

I reckon most adults would freeze if you drilled them to charge a killer with an arsenal of weapons. I suppose if you were to have instructions, it would be better to scatter in all directions ... have multiple exists, jump out windows ... run and don't stop. Huddle in a corner sounds like the worst thing you could do ... unless it was an impregnable safe room. When the panic sets in ... will kids really be in control enough to huddle quietly in a corner? I'd doubt it.

I'd be more inclined educate primary age kids about the unlikeliness of events like these, and then drill the teachers about how to act.

If you were to take it to another level ... schools should be no more than 2 floors high, each classroom should have a super strong door that can be sealed from the inside or centrally, no corridor windows, and least 1 side of the classroom should have direct access to the outside, that way kids can be evacuated from an individual classroom in the event of an incident.

You can bet these ideas will have an effect on future school design and refurbishment ... especially middle and high schools.

[B-Fly]

I am not so sure that adults with guns is not closely related to doing a drill. Both are to calm fears. Maybe both won't be needed, and maybe both are not effective.

Unlike drilling, having adults in the school with guns might actually enhance the risk that someone will get shot. If you're talking about a trained security guard or a police officer, I think that's an effective deterrent. Giving a gun to a teacher or administrator? I think that's asking for trouble.

[johnnya24]

Saying that, if you were looking for somewhere in the world to live, China and the USA wouldn't be on that list looking at this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_attacks_related_to_primary_schools

Scary

[heyelander]

What next? How about airplane style escape chutes and emergency exits in every classroom. Every classroom must be convertible to a safe room ... impenetrable doors, prison style locks, bullet proof glass, reinforced concrete walls, direct hotlines to local police etc

How about just get rid of all the guns? All of them.

Actually, I kind of like the Emergency exits in every classroom. Have one window that is removable and has enough room to exit the building.

[johnnya24]

Actually, I kind of like the Emergency exits in every classroom. Have one window that is removable and has enough room to exit the building.

Yeah ... if you're going to do it, you need to be able to lock down the classrooms and give the kids time and crucially a way to get out. You couldn't really drill for this in such a way as to make it smooth (like a fire drill) ... so it would have to be the teachers who are trained to deal with this eventuality.

[swampdragon]

OK - guys I will think about all of these ideas
I am one of the very few people with expertise (I guess) in this. I have been teaching middle school for four years but spent the first part of my working life as an architect/interior designer with a degree in architecture.

When you design there is a huge hierarchy of goals for usage (and also factoring in price). A school is still going to be designed for the best place for teaching and learning first on a daily basis.

[Mithrandir]

What next? How about airplane style escape chutes and emergency exits in every classroom. Every classroom must be convertible to a safe room ... impenetrable doors, prison style locks, bullet proof glass, reinforced concrete walls, direct hotlines to local police etc

How about just get rid of all the guns? All of them.

What about hunting? I am not a hunter, but see the necessity of hunting...to provide food ..to thin the herd, etc..I have hit two deer with my car and it is not a fun experience.it's scary. Everytime i nearly hit another deer i am always thankful that there are hunters thinning the herd.