Can I Get a Witness?

[Bob Kohm]

We are as a society and species moving towards the dissolution of organized religion; the reality is that even now as compared to 250 years ago religion plays a much, much smaller role in our lives. We're not there yet and I don't think we will ever remove the concept of god and faith from our lives, but organized, stratified, exclusivist religion? I think there's a reasonable shot that Western society looks at it as a quaint anachronism within the next 250 years in favor of truly personal relationships with god, the universe, whatever. Islam will take longer to fade.

[B-Fly]

The problem I have with Christians is the same that I'd have with Jews or Mormons or Muslims that would try to carry their religion out of the church, where it belongs, and into the public sector where our First Amendment has pretty clearly stated that it does NOT belong. Our politicians that say things like "God's law is above local law" might as well be Iranian clerics. I have no more desire to live under Christian rule than I do sharia law. I do not believe in the Christian god nor do I believe in Allah. This country was established as a haven both for the religious as well as freedom from the religious. I do not want your god on my money, in my pledge, or in front of my courthouses. I do not want my children to be taught your mythology in public school in any manner outside of an elective religion class. I do not want my wife subjected to your religion when she visits her doctor. I do not want my homosexual friends to be beholden to your religious marriage traditions. I want no part in the Christian religious war against the Muslim faith, both of which are equally false to me. I hear about "creeping sharia law" and believe that the real danger is from the Christian majority who wish to implement their own version of sharia / religious law on us all.

I do not care what you believe or what you wish to practice in private, so long as you keep it private and it doesn't harm unwilling participants.

Here's where I think it gets complicated, though. Yes, the First Amendment includes the Establishment Clause that precludes any State or the federal government from establishing an official faith or, as interpreted by the Supreme Court, from favoring or benefiting any one faith over others or over faithlessness. At the same time, the First Amendment establishes the right of individuals to freely exercise their religious faith, to freely speak their mind, and to freely assemble to petition the government. So there is also no question in my mind that people of faith, either individually or through organized groups, including churches or faith-based organizations, can advocate as loudly as they wish for laws and regulations - even constitutional amendments - that they believe align with their values, even if those values originate in faith. So I don't believe that one can suggest that the First Amendment creates any sort of bar against heavy political advocacy by churches or parishioners. Now once the government starts enacting laws or regulations or taking other actions, then one can engage in a constitutional analysis of those government actions - under the Establishment Clause, under the Due Process or Equal Protection Clause, under the privacy jurisprudence drawn from several places in the Constitution, etc. But people of faith absolutely have a right to advocate in the public policy arena.

[onejayhawk]

Here is one of my major issues with the Church or religion. They ignore science and fact if it conflicts with their teachings and they'll drag their feet in adopting new ideas. It was religion that insisted the world was flat, that the Earth was the center of the universe and now, that man was just plopped onto Earth as is.

I there were no religion, think of how many lives would have been spared? How many in the course of history have dies in the name of someone's God? Think about it, has Religion actually been good for mankind? I'd say it's a toss up at best with a definitive edge to--We'd be better off without it.

Monotheism was pivotal to the development of scientific thought. In a spiritist world, there is no mystery to solve. Spirits cause everything. Even in a polytheistic world, the Gods' whims are central to how things operate. It was the development of monotheism that allowed us to look under the hood.

The church, as distinct from the Church, is a hierarchical political structure. It does what all bureaucracies do. It protects its turf.

J

[B-Fly]

Monotheism was pivotal to the development of scientific thought. In a spiritist world, there is no mystery to solve. Spirits cause everything. Even in a polytheistic world, the Gods' whims are central to how things operate. It was the development of monotheism that allowed us to look under the hood.

Yes, in that it was a pivotal step on the path toward atheism.

[Bob Kohm]

Don't take my word for it, here's His Holiness, the Dalai Lama...

"All the world’s major religions, with their emphasis on love, compassion, patience, tolerance, and forgiveness can and do promote inner values. But the reality of the world today is that grounding ethics in religion is no longer adequate. This is why I am increasingly convinced that the time has come to find a way of thinking about spirituality and ethics beyond religion altogether."

[B-Fly]

Don't take my word for it, here's His Holiness, the Dalai Lama...

"All the world’s major religions, with their emphasis on love, compassion, patience, tolerance, and forgiveness can and do promote inner values. But the reality of the world today is that grounding ethics in religion is no longer adequate. This is why I am increasingly convinced that the time has come to find a way of thinking about spirituality and ethics beyond religion altogether."

Absolutely!

[GwynnInTheHall]

Don't take my word for it, here's His Holiness, the Dalai Lama...

"All the world’s major religions, with their emphasis on love, compassion, patience, tolerance, and forgiveness can and do promote inner values. But the reality of the world today is that grounding ethics in religion is no longer adequate. This is why I am increasingly convinced that the time has come to find a way of thinking about spirituality and ethics beyond religion altogether."

Shared!

[DMT]

Winner!

[Fresno Bob]

Big hitter, the Lama....

[Mithrandir]

Big hitter, the Lama....

But a lousy tipper

[GwynnInTheHall]

But a lousy tipper

He was a Librarian in his previous life...............

[TranaGreg]

Monotheism was pivotal to the development of scientific thought. In a spiritist world, there is no mystery to solve. Spirits cause everything. Even in a polytheistic world, the Gods' whims are central to how things operate. It was the development of monotheism that allowed us to look under the hood.

The church, as distinct from the Church, is a hierarchical political structure. It does what all bureaucracies do. It protects its turf.

J

righhhhtttttt ... curious, would you consider the Socratic Method at all relevant to the "development of scientific thought"?

[Lurker765]

Monotheism was pivotal to the development of scientific thought. In a spiritist world, there is no mystery to solve. Spirits cause everything. Even in a polytheistic world, the Gods' whims are central to how things operate. It was the development of monotheism that allowed us to look under the hood.
J

I always wondered why the Chinese never developed gunpowder and why their astronomy was so mediocre. And this also explains why the Egyptians were unable to develop geometry or medicine.

[GwynnInTheHall]

I always wondered why the Chinese never developed gunpowder and why their astronomy was so mediocre. And this also explains why the Egyptians were unable to develop geometry or medicine.

heathen!


Edit: Have you ever noticed how close Heathen and Heaven are? What if Jesus had a speech impediment?

[Steve]

heathen!


Edit: Have you ever noticed how close Heathen and Heaven are? What if Jesus had a speech impediment?