Can I Get a Witness?

[In the Corn]

Well, it seems my RJ Christian brothers have been called out as supporting the fringe right and it's ideology. Can I have some honest assessment from the folks here on RJ of their perception of my support, or lack of support for those fringe right positions?

I expect to hear I'm goofy on the same-sex marriage issue, but that's the only thing I can think of where I think the community thinks I'm out in left field.

Seriously, I'd like to know people's perceptions of me and my ideology.

Thanks in advance.

[Bob Kohm]

I'll give you a very simple bellwether question, ITC. Do you believe that the only way to find salvation is to accept Jesus Christ as your personal savior?

[In the Corn]

Yes I do, Bob. I have no qualms about that, and I respect other's position regarding their faith or lack there of.

[Bob Kohm]

Yes I do, Bob. I have no qualms about that, and I respect other's position regarding their faith or lack there of.

You realize that you just ended the conversation, don't you? If your belief is that the only way to salvation is to accept your personal belief structure there can be no more radical agenda vis-a-vis belief systems. You are right, all others are not just wrong but are forever separated from who you believe to be their Creator... even if he created them Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist, Shinto, Jain, Animist, Mormon or any of the other faiths or lack of faiths there are. You have condemned the vast majority of the people whom you believe that God created to eternal death because you and yours have a book written by you and yours that says so. Oy vey.

So, while I appreciate your "respect" for others who disagree, I cannot bring myself to respect your position; in fact I find it to be the root of more evil in this world than nearly any other position on faith, not only from the Christian Fundamentalist perspective that you approach it from but from all of the other small minded, exclusivist religious dogmas and dogmatics out there throughout the planet and throughout time.

[heyelander]

I disagree with you on social agenda but I've got no real problems with you. Respect you for believing as you believe and trying to live it. I think you give your personal thoughts on how you want to live life, but I don't think you push your agenda too much.

There were a few people here that I took issue with, but they are infrequent posters and may have never even made it over to this board. I'm conflict avoidant, so I stay away from the "serious level of discourse" on this site, even if I agree with the position. Usually it makes me want to take the other side.

[heyelander]

I have no idea what your stance is on really any issue. If you have voted for the folks that perpetuate crazy far-right ideologies you have supported them yourself.

So even though you have said numerous times here that you take issue with some of Obama's policies, you're really lying to us to save face and are actually 100% behind them all because in November you will vote for him and support all those things?

[B-Fly]

Well, it seems my RJ Christian brothers have been called out as supporting the fringe right and it's ideology. Can I have some honest assessment from the folks here on RJ of their perception of my support, or lack of support for those fringe right positions?

I expect to hear I'm goofy on the same-sex marriage issue, but that's the only thing I can think of where I think the community thinks I'm out in left field.

Seriously, I'd like to know people's perceptions of me and my ideology.

Thanks in advance.

My personal perception is that while you do take the Biblical-text-based evangelical positions on social issues as a starting point, you also bring empathy to bear, respect the points and concerns raised by others, and don't generally prioritize the hot-button issues around abortion and homosexuality above your broader faith-drive commitments to charitable aims.

[In the Corn]

Should federal money support Planned Parenthood? I have no issue with this at all. The only issue I have with PP is they perform abortions.

Should all abortion be illegal? I don't believe that any abortion be illegal. I do not agree with abortion, as I believe it is killing an innocent baby, however I would rather a women who desires to have an abortion have one that is safe and does the least harm to her. I do not want us going back to the days of coat hangers in the alley.

Should employers be able to opt out of certain provisions in their health care plans depending on what their religion is? If the employer is a religious entity, yes. Most of the U.S. has at-will employment. You make a choice who you work for just as much as an employer chooses you to work for them. If you do not agree with their mission, I would think you wouldn't want to work at that business.

Should women seeking an abortion be forced to have a transvaginal probe inserted into their vaginas before undergoing the procedure? No. There is already enough emotional pain the woman is feeling. There is no need to add to that.

Do you believe that only certain couples should enjoy partnership benefits, as dictated by your religion? No. Who you decide to be your life partner, is a contract set up by the government and shouldn't be dictated by any religious group.

Do you believe that women should be forced to undergo counseling in which false and/or misleading information is provided before undergoing an abortion? No.

Do you think that intelligent design and/or creationism should be taught in public schools? No. Creationism is a faith idea, and has no business to be taught in a public school.

Do you believe that humans are descended from apes? No, I do not believe in inter-species evolution.

Do you think the earth's age is in the thousands of years? No, I do not.


I have no idea what your stance is on really any issue. If you have voted for the folks that perpetuate crazy far-right ideologies you have supported them yourself. I imagine that goes both ways, if you voted for someone with crazy far-left ideologies. [/QUOTE]

[In the Corn]

My personal perception is that while you do take the Biblical-text-based evangelical positions on social issues as a starting point, you also bring empathy to bear, respect the points and concerns raised by others, and don't generally prioritize the hot-button issues around abortion and homosexuality above your broader faith-drive commitments to charitable aims.

Brian - my personal mission statement that I share with people is to enable individuals to become all that God has intended them to be. The charitable aspect of who I am draws me to those who are on the margins. Those that need the basics...I've worked for a family homeless shelter, a Meals on Wheels organization, a mammoth social service agency (you name it, they did it), a organization aimed at helping at-risk youth and as a youth pastor at my church.

I want to see people succeed and thrive in life. They don't have to agree with my personal faith for me to help them out.

Christians as a whole need to focus more on Matthew 25:31-46:

31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

and less on the political topics.

[Bob Kohm]

Here's the problem with that seemingly noble thought, ITC... not ten posts back you said that the only pathway to salvation was to accept Jesus Christ as your personal saviour. Now here's a passage saying that the Judgement isn't about that at all, but about doing good works. Telling us which one you actually believe or how you manage to combine them... now that would be telling us something!

[heyelander]

I'm about to go on vacation... so I think I will take a vacation. enjoy all.

[In the Corn]

Here's the problem with that seemingly noble thought, ITC... not ten posts back you said that the only pathway to salvation was to accept Jesus Christ as your personal saviour. Now here's a passage saying that the Judgement isn't about that at all, but about doing good works. Telling us which one you actually believe or how you manage to combine them... now that would be telling us something!

Well, let's break this passage down for those who want to cherry pick...

Verse 31 clearly states, the King (meaning Jesus) separates the sheep from the goats. So it's not my job to sort the sheep and goats, but His.

He will say to the sheep (verse 40), "‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me."

He will say to goats (verse 41), "‘Depart from me, you who are cursed."

Bob, you're trying to push a works-based salvation on me, which you know I don't agree with. You can't pigeon-hole me there.

[Bob Kohm]

Bob, you're trying to push a works-based salvation on me, which you know I don't agree with. You can't pigeon-hole me there.

No, I'm not tryign to pigeon hole you at all. I'm tryign to decipher what looks like a clear contradiction in your stated and implied philosophies so that I can understand where you're coming from. There's no question that this passage, which you just held up as a model, clearly proposes a works based salvation. Your earlier stated philosophy, which I characterize as the root of evil inherent to exclusivist religions, excludes that possibility. I seek merely to clarify.

[senorsheep]

Well, let's break this passage down for those who want to cherry pick...

Verse 31 clearly states, the King (meaning Jesus) separates the sheep from the goats. So it's not my job to sort the sheep and goats, but His.

He will say to the sheep (verse 40), "‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me."

He will say to goats (verse 41), "‘Depart from me, you who are cursed."

Hey, man, I'm officially retired from Sports Bar political threads. Leave me out of this.

[In the Corn]

Hey, man, I'm officially retired from Sports Bar political threads. Leave me out of this.

I was going to say this is no reference to our senorsheep.