Democratic Convention 2012

[Bob Kohm]

Greg, don't conflate a personal persecution complex with actual persecution One is something to spend some couch time over with a therapist, the other is a cause for revolution. Dangerous things happen when you confuse the two.

Who here has ever prevented you from expressing an opinion or deleted one that you've stated? Have you ever been tossed from the site because of it? Denied the ability to post? Nobody attacks your faith; when you find yourself at the end of my penned barrels it is an attack on your trying to force your faith and peculiar beliefs on others by trying to influence secular law to meet your theological pinings or when you express illogical points of view and try to argue them as objective reality rather than religious mythology. Honestly, if you think you're being attacked when you do those things, you're right to a degree-- I will attack the principles and the illogical pathways that lead to your opinions in an effort to debunk them, as will others. If you feel that's "persecution", it's not-- it's debate. If you don't have the answers to counter those arguments with logic or the faith to simply say, "You're right, it makes no logical sense but my faith doesn't need logic to make it real to me"... well, as the saying goes, cry me a river.

BTW, for someone who has so often in the past tried out the "gotcha" questions... well, to partially quote a famous Southern Baptist whom I have a world of respect for- "it takes some brass".

[Gregg]

Churches burned, people beaten or killed for their beliefs. - of course this is having religious liberty threatened. I don't think that it happens to Christian churches in this country - but it happens to mosques and temples.

Gregg - I don't get what you are trying to say in regards to the article. Do you agree with the pieces of the article?

My comment was on ELD's comment about persecution. I also showed the 2 definitions of persecution. I made no comment about your posted article.

[Gregg]

Greg, don't conflate a personal persecution complex with actual persecution One is something to spend some couch time over with a therapist, the other is a cause for revolution. Dangerous things happen when you confuse the two.

Who here has ever prevented you from expressing an opinion or deleted one that you've stated? Have you ever been tossed from the site because of it? Denied the ability to post? Nobody attacks your faith; when you find yourself at the end of my penned barrels it is an attack on your trying to force your faith and peculiar beliefs on others by trying to influence secular law to meet your theological pinings or when you express illogical points of view and try to argue them as objective reality rather than religious mythology. Honestly, if you think you're being attacked when you do those things, you're right to a degree-- I will attack the principles and the illogical pathways that lead to your opinions in an effort to debunk them, as will others. If you feel that's "persecution", it's not-- it's debate. If you don't have the answers to counter those arguments with logic or the faith to simply say, "You're right, it makes no logical sense but my faith doesn't need logic to make it real to me"... well, as the saying goes, cry me a river.

BTW, for someone who has so often in the past tried out the "gotcha" questions... well, to partially quote a famous Southern Baptist whom I have a world of respect for- "it takes some brass".

Bob, I do not have a persecution complex. It is just another one of your crass bullying tactics. It is not debate once you inject namecalling or turn it into a personal attack. I have defended the faith, engaged in true debates and have forced no one to my beliefs. I have in the long ago past had many a good discusions in here often interupted by snarky attacks from some posters. I did not mention your name, but you put yourself in team picture. So who has the complex?

Now by definition (see #2) there has been some bullying or light harassment. But also notice my words and see that I said I don't think anyone was persecuted in here. I think you are by far the biggest bully on this site and certainly are rude to anyone that disagrees with you.

Regarding gotcha questions it was probably my debate method much like your name calling. But people change Bob and I stopped doing that after the second or third one. What was that 10 years ago? I have grown a bit, how about you?

[Gregg]

I can't really decipher what you're trying to say here. What about the pastor from India? Who is preventing you from talking?

I was trying to show the two definitions of persecution. As far as Christian persecution I was pointing out that I just had an experience with someone who has experienced "real" persecution. While I do not like the snarky bullying comments that can happen in here and while they might take the form of definition #2, I would not consider any of us persecuted.

My other comment is that I would expect that you would stand up for freedoms whether or not you agreed with them or not asthat is what you expect from Christians.

[Roto Rooter]

i'd hope that those of you that actually believe that christians are being treated unfairly would speak out with your words and your votes against the republicans who are engaging in a campaign of discrimination against muslims.

LOL priceless

[Gregg]

The latter is NOT a definition of persecution. Christians are so clearly not persecuted in this country that even the assertion is completely laughable. In fact, the article Swampy linked does a pretty good job of explaining just what the difference between real persecution and petty whining really is. You want to talk religious persecution, talk to a Muslim in this country (or if you just want lies, talk to any of a litany of Republicans who actively conduct modern day witch hunts against Muslims).

I took the definintions of persecute from dictionary.com.

[GwynnInTheHall]

I took the definintions of persecute from dictionary.com.

Just a question, does disagreeing with you constitute harassment? Does asking Christians to respect the separation of church and state exemplify persecution?

[Gregg]

Just a question, does disagreeing with you constitute harassment? Does asking Christians to respect the separation of church and state exemplify persecution?

No not at all.

To the first question, I do not think you have ever heard me complain or be offended by anyone disagreeing with me. I have taken exception to the name calling or even branding me a certain way just to the fact I am a Christian.

[swampdragon]

Gregg and I have had polar opposite discussions on religion
but this might be be getting out of hand (or people are reading to much into comments-

The point of the link was to show what religious persecution really means and that some Christians wrongly feel that they are persecuted because they can't impose their views on others.

I don't think Gregg is saying that he is persecuted because he is a Christian (or maybe he does have examples or feelings about it)

here is the link again - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rev-em...b_1845413.html

[Bob Kohm]

Greg, you confuse persecution with disagreement and bullying with an inability to match your opponent in debate. I'm going to leave it at that and walk away from this discussion with you, as when a self proclaimed Christian plays the martyr card there's really little to do but shake ones head and go in the other direction.

[Lucky]

I think a lot of people feel persecuted today. The liberals, who are supposedly persecuting the Christians, are constantly set upon by the religious right, accused of being Godless, treasonous, anti-American, idiots, perverts, communists, and litterers. There's a lot of criticism directed to the religious right as well, and although I don't think it really applies to us run-of-the-mill Christians, it still stings.

By that I mean some of the nasty back-and-forth on the national talk shows and other forums just doesn't seem to apply to me. Or at least I don't take it that way. I don't see myself as a pervert. Nor do I see myself as someone attempting to impose their religious will upon others. I don't feel persecuted as liberal or Christian. Instead, it seems that a small minority of both groups are insistent upon acting badly and speaking even more badly.

[Gregg]

Greg, you confuse persecution with disagreement and bullying with an inability to match your opponent in debate. I'm going to leave it at that and walk away from this discussion with you, as when a self proclaimed Christian plays the martyr card there's really little to do but shake ones head and go in the other direction.

NO BOB. Once again you are telling me what I think and feel. Once you do that then add in some insults it is no longer a debate. I have not played the martyr card, I have objected to your your immature way of discussion (because what you do is not debate).

In all these years, I have never lost a debate to you. I will say that you have changed my mind one time (regarding religion in schools) so if that is losing I will amend my statement to once. I will also add that you have had an influence on me, I have had to work extra hard to refute some of the blather that you have posted. This has made me stronger, not weaker.

I debated whether or not to post this next part. All the Glory goes to God. I truly pray for blessings for you and your family not to change you but to bless you. Not the Christian version of the middle finger "I'll pray for you". But the real thing.

God bless you and yours.

[Gregg]

I think a lot of people feel persecuted today. The liberals, who are supposedly persecuting the Christians, are constantly set upon by the religious right, accused of being Godless, treasonous, anti-American, idiots, perverts, communists, and litterers. There's a lot of criticism directed to the religious right as well, and although I don't think it really applies to us run-of-the-mill Christians, it still stings.

By that I mean some of the nasty back-and-forth on the national talk shows and other forums just doesn't seem to apply to me. Or at least I don't take it that way. I don't see myself as a pervert. Nor do I see myself as someone attempting to impose their religious will upon others. I don't feel persecuted as liberal or Christian. Instead, it seems that a small minority of both groups are insistent upon acting badly and speaking even more badly.

I have a friend who is on first name basis with Paul Ryan. Needless to say he is pretty far right. Sometimes he will run down the "evil Democrats" road. I reel him in a bit with God loves Democrats as much as Republicans. It usually slows him down a bit.

Seems to me as long as either side clams or believes the other is evil our Country will have a hard time moving forward.

[Lucky]

I'm not a Ryan fan, but he seems like someone who would talk to people, and not just surround himself with an entourage. I do like that.

I think you're dead right on the evil thing. We've turned policy disagreements into morality wars, where there is no middle ground.

My plan is to pay as little attention as possible to politics over the next two months.

[Judge Jude]

"My plan is to pay as little attention as possible to politics over the next two months."

I've been fearing for a while that the rhetoric is going to get pretty nasty all over. The polarization has been intensifying, too.
Usually one convention seems angrier than the other. This year, both were bloodthirsty angry, it seemed.