Affordable Health Care Law under review by SCOTUS

[baldgriff]

When there is more supply - prices have to come down. Will they come down to a place where Joe Poorguy can afford to have elective surgery or to go on dialysis every two weeks.

I want to be clear about this - I dont necessarily have a problem with single-payer. What I do have a problem with is that it seems that "the solution" to the problem is that everyone pays "what is fair". Unfortunately fair is not the same for each person. Joe Poorguy may say its fair for me to pay X dollars for my healthcare, and Jane Richbitch may say fair is Y dollars and Tim Ownzazillion may say, I shouldnt pay anymore than Joe Poorguy or Jane Richbitch. Its a subjective amount and may not actually be "fair".

Im willing to concede single payer (and ITC will note that I have stated that in conversation with him). I am not against it. Again it comes down to "Who is going to pay for it?"

Should Joe have to pay $100 bucks, while Jane pays $1000 or Tim pays $10000? Just because Tim has the means to pay $10000 doesnt mean it is fair to him to have to pay that.

[GwynnInTheHall]

Here is a question that I guess hasnt been discussed. When we discuss "health care" for the poor, what kind of coverage are we talking?

I get that if Joe poor guy gets strep throat and needs a prescription for antibiotics that he should have access to that

What if Joe poor person has smoked and drank hard for 20 years and now needs heart and liver transplant - is that covered?


I guess I am curious to what degree you want to cover everybody?

Who profited from his smoking and drinking? Who marketed these health destroying toxins to get his money at the cost of his health?

As long as society creates these ills and profits from them, they are responsible for helping remedy those who need it.

I want EVERY life to be equal in value. MY liver is as valuable as Bill Gates. It should receive the same care.

Everyone gets the same coverage, total coverage. Universal Healthcare. From Free to whatever you can pay.

Now if you want something cosmetic or elective--that's a different story. But anything that keeps you in good health and from being sick or dying should be covered, completely.

[cardboardbox]

I guess another question would be - what government do you think is going to step in and fix this ? This happened after ACA was passed, so that apparently didn't deal with this situation. Do you expect Donald Trump and the Republicans are motivated to fix stuff like this ? I have a hard time understanding how you think our government is motivated to fix this. It's more likely that laws are written specifically to allow this or create situations where insurance companies or medical providers can profit off of people's misfortune. But maybe that's just the cynic in me. Either way this is going to continue for quite a while. If your answer is for the government to step in I'd be interested in how you think that is going to happen.

Lets start a new health insurance company, me and you. We wont need govt regulation because we'll just do whats right. Our slogan will be "no surprises." Once word gets out that we are better than the other insurance companies, our membership will rise quickly and everyone else will be forced to treat their customers better.

[GwynnInTheHall]

I think I made it clear that I don't think lines should be drawn. Should we be doing heart transplants on 90-year-olds so they can live a bit better their last few years?

Yes, otherwise we should just put them in a boat and shove them into the ocean and shoot a flaming arrow into it for good measure.

[baldgriff]

If we decided that every single person had to pay for their schooling k-12, or else not get it, what happens is you get huge pockets of pop with poor education, unable to read or process basic math with zero idea of science, and would rely on voodoo and prayer for their every answer rather than any kind of thought process. It ends up way more expensive as a society.

Really?? Education?? We already have huge pockets of populations where kids get poor educations, are unable to read or process basic math with zero idea of science. Education isnt even a market at this point. While I know many of you disagree - competition breeds better services and lower expenses. Education though is owned by the government, which is ineffective and forces untested and unproven curriculum standards like Common Core - where states had to adopt the standard if they wanted x funding. We have more kids coming out of high school that dont have any concept of life skills like balancing a check book, writing a resume, let alone how to even shake someones hand or present themselves in a manner that makes them employable. Education, not the best analogy.

[baldgriff]

Yes, otherwise we should just put them in a boat and shove them into the ocean and shoot a flaming arrow into it for good measure.

Or we provide them care to make their normal rest of their life comfortable. Jeebus, even I wouldnt put them in a boat or shoot flaming arrows.

[GwynnInTheHall]

When there is more supply - prices have to come down. Will they come down to a place where Joe Poorguy can afford to have elective surgery or to go on dialysis every two weeks.

I want to be clear about this - I dont necessarily have a problem with single-payer. What I do have a problem with is that it seems that "the solution" to the problem is that everyone pays "what is fair". Unfortunately fair is not the same for each person. Joe Poorguy may say its fair for me to pay X dollars for my healthcare, and Jane Richbitch may say fair is Y dollars and Tim Ownzazillion may say, I shouldnt pay anymore than Joe Poorguy or Jane Richbitch. Its a subjective amount and may not actually be "fair".

Im willing to concede single payer (and ITC will note that I have stated that in conversation with him). I am not against it. Again it comes down to "Who is going to pay for it?"

Should Joe have to pay $100 bucks, while Jane pays $1000 or Tim pays $10000? Just because Tim has the means to pay $10000 doesnt mean it is fair to him to have to pay that.

Not True, Health Care isn't an industry where you can outsource production to another country using cheap labor. You're also ignoring Pharma market in this discussion where as we have seen, can be cornered by an asshole and live saving medications now become unaffordable.


WE ALL PAY FOR IT.


YOU LIVE IN A SOCIETY....you do not live in a shack in the woods where you need nothing from the rest of us.

You want out of the social contract? Withdraw from society. Otherwise, try to come to terms with the fact the kind of world you want to live in doesn;t exit unless you're all alone.

[baldgriff]

Lets start a new health insurance company, me and you. We wont need govt regulation because we'll just do whats right. Our slogan will be "no surprises." Once word gets out that we are better than the other insurance companies, our membership will rise quickly and everyone else will be forced to treat their customers better.

Wait?? You think if you provide better service at lower prices, that your competition may have to do the same in order to compete?

Is this why we see multiple auto mobile insurance commercials everyday - telling us that they are better and cheaper and provide better services? In fact isnt there one company that gets you quotes for multiple places as the same time to help get the best price you can. I think their name is Progressive - if I recall correctly. That is ironic in some way, isnt it.

[baldgriff]

Not True, Health Care isn't an industry where you can outsource production to another country using cheap labor. You're also ignoring Pharma market in this discussion where as we have seen, can be cornered by an asshole and live saving medications now become unaffordable.

The issues with the Pharma market is due to the way patents on drugs are allowed to be maintained for excessive periods of time - which doesnt allow for the implementation of "generics". I take generic Zyrtec basically everyday. Zyrtec was an allergy medicine that was very expensive until their patent expired. Now I get a bottle of 100 Allertec pills - Costco generic - for about 20 dollars. Its the regulations that allow this bullshit to happen. Who sets the regulations? The Govt.

[Hornsby]

When there is more supply - prices have to come down. Will they come down to a place where Joe Poorguy can afford to have elective surgery or to go on dialysis every two weeks.

I want to be clear about this - I dont necessarily have a problem with single-payer. What I do have a problem with is that it seems that "the solution" to the problem is that everyone pays "what is fair". Unfortunately fair is not the same for each person. Joe Poorguy may say its fair for me to pay X dollars for my healthcare, and Jane Richbitch may say fair is Y dollars and Tim Ownzazillion may say, I shouldnt pay anymore than Joe Poorguy or Jane Richbitch. Its a subjective amount and may not actually be "fair".

Im willing to concede single payer (and ITC will note that I have stated that in conversation with him). I am not against it. Again it comes down to "Who is going to pay for it?"

Should Joe have to pay $100 bucks, while Jane pays $1000 or Tim pays $10000? Just because Tim has the means to pay $10000 doesnt mean it is fair to him to have to pay that.

Jesus Christ, you troll like this and wonder why people get pissed at you?

Yes, "fair" is fair to everyone. Ideally, in a single payer system, rich people don't get better treatment than poor people. Supply and demand is a bullshit argument when it comes to health care, because there is MASSIVE collusion in big pharma and the medical industry. You really think that an aspirin costs 5 bucks? Of course not...it's covering other hospital costs, such as the walk-in that has to have surgery, but has no insurance. And it STILL is a huge profit maker to the hospital group.

Transplants guidelines are who is the sickest and who is the best match...and still people can game the system. Steve jobs got a liver transplant because he was listed at multiple medical centers, not just one. So when one became available in Tennessee, he flew out and had the operation. Money wins again...with a single payer system this wouldn't happen.

Now why don't you answer the questions that have been posed to you?

[GwynnInTheHall]

Or we provide them care to make their normal rest of their life comfortable. Jeebus, even I wouldnt put them in a boat or shoot flaming arrows.

No because that would cost you money for the boat and arrows.

[baldgriff]

Not True, Health Care isn't an industry where you can outsource production to another country using cheap labor. You're also ignoring Pharma market in this discussion where as we have seen, can be cornered by an asshole and live saving medications now become unaffordable.


WE ALL PAY FOR IT.


YOU LIVE IN A SOCIETY....you do not live in a shack in the woods where you need nothing from the rest of us.

You want out of the social contract? Withdraw from society. Otherwise, try to come to terms with the fact the kind of world you want to live in doesn;t exit unless you're all alone.

I dont want out of the social contract. I want to be able to participate where I see the need. The govt taking my money for programs - many of which I dislike - makes it less possible for me to apply my funds to places where I see need or have a passion to help with.

[GwynnInTheHall]

The issues with the Pharma market is due to the way patents on drugs are allowed to be maintained for excessive periods of time - which doesnt allow for the implementation of "generics". I take generic Zyrtec basically everyday. Zyrtec was an allergy medicine that was very expensive until their patent expired. Now I get a bottle of 100 Allertec pills - Costco generic - for about 20 dollars. Its the regulations that allow this bullshit to happen. Who sets the regulations? The Govt.

You just don't get it, you just don't.

I sincerely hope you are never in need and if somehow you find yourself there--you haven;t surrounded yourself with like minded people.

[baldgriff]

Jesus Christ, you troll like this and wonder why people get pissed at you?

Yes, "fair" is fair to everyone. Ideally, in a single payer system, rich people don't get better treatment than poor people. Supply and demand is a bullshit argument when it comes to health care, because there is MASSIVE collusion in big pharma and the medical industry. You really think that an aspirin costs 5 bucks? Of course not...it's covering other hospital costs, such as the walk-in that has to have surgery, but has no insurance. And it STILL is a huge profit maker to the hospital group.

Transplants guidelines are who is the sickest and who is the best match...and still people can game the system. Steve jobs got a liver transplant because he was listed at multiple medical centers, not just one. So when one became available in Tennessee, he flew out and had the operation. Money wins again...with a single payer system this wouldn't happen.

Now why don't you answer the questions that have been posed to you?

If you move to single payer - the aspirin will likely still cost $5. If you are frustrated with the MASSIVE COLLUSION - then fix that. Who is responsible for allowing the MASSIVE COLLUSION - the good ol US GOVT.

[GwynnInTheHall]

I dont want out of the social contract. I want to be able to participate where I see the need. The govt taking my money for programs - many of which I dislike - makes it less possible for me to apply my funds to places where I see need or have a passion to help with.

You can't pick and choose and you know that, you're just bitching because you don't agree with how it's spent. Again, if I have to tolerate Defense spending, you have to tolerate paying for my grandpa's heart transplant.