Affordable Health Care Law under review by SCOTUS

[The Feral Slasher]

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/n...junk/index.htm

all insurance is not created equal.

Granted her current health insurance is horrible, but there isn't a lot to like about the Humana Direct Silver policy mentioned in the article. She makes about $30,000 a year, the premiums will be close to $2000 a year and the deductible is $4600 (plus an additonal $1500 deductible for prescriptions). So if she has a $5000 medical bill how is she going to pay for it given that she is probably living paycheck to paycheck ? She has insurance but it seems to me she still can't afford medical care. Or am I missing something ?

[mjl]

I think she still can't afford minor problems, although the new insurance does cover preventative medicine and diagnostic visits without going into the deductible, so that should help. But at 56, and with minimal medical care in previous years, she's probably at significant risk of having something very bad happen, and with the new insurance she doesn't immediately go bankrupt and become a ward of the state, which she would have otherwise.

[gcstomp]

Yea that new insurance is not all peaches in her case, though as pointed out, just having access to routine doctor visits, which do not require meeting a deductible, is in itself a great thing. But if she needs some kind of organ transplant, or open heart surgery, she would need to be out of pocket just the $4600 rather than the $300k+ of the above procedures and instantly needing to go into bankruptcy. As of today, leading cause of bankruptcy in the U.S. is unpaid medical bills, its not just an action taken by people who were reckless with cc debt.

[The Feral Slasher]

I think she still can't afford minor problems, although the new insurance does cover preventative medicine and diagnostic visits without going into the deductible, so that should help. But at 56, and with minimal medical care in previous years, she's probably at significant risk of having something very bad happen, and with the new insurance she doesn't immediately go bankrupt and become a ward of the state, which she would have otherwise.

I'd agree it helps with the huge medical bills in limiting massive debt and immediate bankruptcy. It just seems that health care would still be a huge worry and concern for her. She still might be avoiding visiting the doctor because she can't afford to go. And even a $5000 medical cost could ruin her financially. It's insurance, but I'd question how effective it is in improving her health care and financial situation.

[mjl]

The insurance covers basic doctor visits, so she doesn't need to avoid it until the doc sends her to a specialist. The other benefit is that by having her massive medical expenses/ER visits covered by insurance, it should significant reduce uncompensated costs borne by hospitals, which I think is a societal good even if it's not strongly relevant to her. It definitely doesn't save her if a $5k or $10k expense is enough to put her in the poorhouse, but even if it is, that's a finite amount instead of a constantly growing bill that you could theoretically get someone to help you with, whether it's family or local charity of some sort.

It's possible that this is a worse use of the additional $1200/yr than something else, but given that she was almost completely uninsured before, it's probably the right thing for society as a whole if she's covered even if the expense is difficult to bear.

[The Feral Slasher]

The insurance covers basic doctor visits, so she doesn't need to avoid it until the doc sends her to a specialist. The other benefit is that by having her massive medical expenses/ER visits covered by insurance, it should significant reduce uncompensated costs borne by hospitals, which I think is a societal good even if it's not strongly relevant to her. It definitely doesn't save her if a $5k or $10k expense is enough to put her in the poorhouse, but even if it is, that's a finite amount instead of a constantly growing bill that you could theoretically get someone to help you with, whether it's family or local charity of some sort.

It's possible that this is a worse use of the additional $1200/yr than something else, but given that she was almost completely uninsured before, it's probably the right thing for society as a whole if she's covered even if the expense is difficult to bear.

I guess I'm just questioning if the Affordable Care Act is making health care more affordable or is simply making catastrophic insurance more affordable (and government subsidized). There are I'm sure lots of different cases to look at and each one may tell a different story. In the end we'll just have to see how it plays out in the long run and hope that it helps a lot of people.

[revo]

Interesting case, wonder how it applies:

My 3-year old broke his leg 2 months ago. I brought him to the ER where they X-Rayed him, confirmed the break and then had a technician (not a doctor) create a fiberglass cast for him. They recommended an orthopedic surgeon to go to for follow-up a month later, where they 1) transferred him into a walking boot; and 2) X-rayed his leg and made further recommendations. At no time did any doctor do anything besides read the X-Rays and make a recommendation, but so far the total bills submitted to my insurance (United Health Care) is somewhere around $8,000 (about $1,500 per "consultation", which may last all of 15 minutes). I understand the doctor(s) may not get all $8k in billings, but they submit this and my insurance company pays them what they deem to be fair.

Anyway, I brought him in for his final examination today and the doctor proclaimed him good to go. When I was paying for the co-pay, I noticed a sheet the assistant had which listed the day's patients, and out of 10 only myself and one other had private health insurance. The other 8 had something called "Goodwill" listed under the insurance provider. I can only assume "Goodwill" means "no insurance."

So these 8 orthopedic surgery patients have no insurance company to go to bat for these extremely high doctor billings, so the state or whomever pays the doctor whatever they bill. If these 8 had private insurance subsidized by the gov't, perhaps these doctors would be held to task for the outrageous billings they make, instead of it being a big payday at the taxpayer's expense.

[Fresno Bob]

Oh and Olivia Munn :swoon: I'm not sure what kind of genetic concoction she is, but whatever it is, I want it.

... and Sloan Sabbith at her best (best if you've seen the series as there may be spoilers)

Olivia Munn replaced Morgan Webb on "Attack of the Show" and in my "nerd girl crush" slot. You should see "Magic Mike" if you'd like to see her naked....

[johnnya24]

Olivia Munn replaced Morgan Webb on "Attack of the Show" and in my "nerd girl crush" slot. You should see "Magic Mike" if you'd like to see her naked....

How could there be another?

Spoiler!

[gcstomp]

That 1 particular ACA plan mentioned is not all peaches. But I signed up for my healthplan and had 132 options pop up as choices. Its not a matter of having to say yes or no to that 1 dog above that is a weak policy in terms of meeting your needs. I (fortunately?) do not qualify for any kind of subsidy. The full sticker of my gold plan at $320 a month offers me way better coverage than I have ever had by a long shot, and as I enter my 40's its really the 1st time that I am comforted by the timing of this ACA. The cost is a little more than I like, but I prior had a self purchased policy with lower premiums that basically was junk insurance that wouldnt cover squat.

[Judge Jude]

Obama approval rating slipping a bit as his handlers keep getting entangled by inconvenient facts:

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2013/11/obamacare-paper-phone-web-apps-stuck-in-the-same-queue-memos-note/

"A series of internal Obama administration memos obtained exclusively by ABC News reveal for the first time how dysfunction with HealthCare.gov has upended the entire Affordable Care Act enrollment process, including applications by paper and phone that officials have been pushing as more reliable alternatives.

While President Obama and other top aides have publicly reassured frustrated consumers that they can bypass the troubled website and apply by phone in as little as 25 minutes, those working most closely with the rollout acknowledged privately that even the nonelectronic avenues would be no more efficient or guaranteed, the documents show."

why is it so difficult to admit that there are issues - as most of us have noted here, if they can get it fixed in a month, in the long run it won't matter much in terms of health care. but getting bullshitted over and over - by the very guy who got elected on a "time to change how things are done in Washington" - gets old pretty fast.

ruh roh

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/11/04/jay-carney-and-abc-reporter-tussle-over-continued-failure-of-obamacare/

Things didn’t get any better as Karl persisted, prompting Carney to mock the ABC News reporter.

“Jon, I get it, but the person who calls isn’t the one who continues to wait after the paper application is filled,” Carney said, imitating Karl’s mannerisms.

“Your mocking is entertaining,” the reporter said, “but the President said you can apply within 25 minutes, that’s not true.”

[gcstomp]

Jude, whats your take by your posting those links, basically a repeat of what we know, the site has issues? Its easy as pie to find daily content from news, quasi news, or entertainment news channels or papers or mags showing varying shades of Obama is a mooslim, kenyan born, anti american sleeper agent. Fox is 24/7 funded to churn anti Obama material out. 2 out of the 10 richest americans the Koch brothers fund many of the orgs that produce all the great bash commercials, and print the signs and drive the masses to the protests that oppose any move Obama makes that runs counter to their profit machine.

BTW, the Forbes 400 list breaking down the richest people in america is a trip, we have Gates, Buffet 1 and 2 who are 2 of the great philanthropists of our time. Ellison at 3rd, the Oracle guy. The Koch brothers at next 2 spots, who are the architects of political candidate backing, org reach, and the govt shutdown. Next 4 on the list are the Waltons from the Walmart monster consuming small town america and driving out/transforming every mom pop shop into sameness. And # 10 is Bloomberg, a guy who is trying to make some real positive steps in his role in public office who could make a zillion more times in the private sector, but clearly wants to make a quality of life difference in the world.

Anyway, if against ACA, why. Links showing how hard ACA is to implement, how the endless monkey wrenches in system are muddying waters, isnt owning a position.

[Judge Jude]

I think it's too soon to tell how well it work overall, although I certainly hope it works - and obviously it's good news for many people as described in anecdotes here. And I haven't posted any Fox News links that I can recall. It's not just that the site has issues; it's the continuing drivel about it that the administration is putting out, even weeks after we have seen that they managed this issue as ineptly as one can imagine.

You can see from this leak that even people in the administration itself are tired of sitting in meetings where the main purpose is "spin" and not information to be presented to the public. That being the case, I don't see why it's so upsetting to anyone for me to note the continuing stumbling message being put out. I find it annoying, and it makes one start to wonder to what degree the entire administration is run this way.

And while the "c'mon, they all do the same thing" message works for many people, I will remind you of the unique level of promises about honesty/inegrity/transparency made by this President about his candidacy. Heck, it WAS his candidacy. What else did he have, beyond being a Constitutional scholar (which is an underrated quality, imo, but generally one would want more in the qualifications bucket than just that)?

[nots]

Jude, whats your take by your posting those links, basically a repeat of what we know, the site has issues? Its easy as pie to find daily content from news, quasi news, or entertainment news channels or papers or mags showing varying shades of Obama is a mooslim, kenyan born, anti american sleeper agent. Fox is 24/7 funded to churn anti Obama material out. 2 out of the 10 richest americans the Koch brothers fund many of the orgs that produce all the great bash commercials, and print the signs and drive the masses to the protests that oppose any move Obama makes that runs counter to their profit machine.

BTW, the Forbes 400 list breaking down the richest people in america is a trip, we have Gates, Buffet 1 and 2 who are 2 of the great philanthropists of our time. Ellison at 3rd, the Oracle guy. The Koch brothers at next 2 spots, who are the architects of political candidate backing, org reach, and the govt shutdown. Next 4 on the list are the Waltons from the Walmart monster consuming small town america and driving out/transforming every mom pop shop into sameness. And # 10 is Bloomberg, a guy who is trying to make some real positive steps in his role in public office who could make a zillion more times in the private sector, but clearly wants to make a quality of life difference in the world.

Anyway, if against ACA, why. Links showing how hard ACA is to implement, how the endless monkey wrenches in system are muddying waters, isnt owning a position.

FWIW, David Koch is a pretty big philanthropist in his own right, having donated $10s of millions to various groups, most notably the NYC Opera, which was named for him. I think just recently he did deny their request for a really large gift ($100M or so). Lots of criticisms of the Koch brothers are valid, but I don';t think a lack of philanthropoy should be one.

[gcstomp]

unique level of promises about honesty/inegrity/transparency made by this President about his candidacy. Heck, it WAS his candidacy. What else did he have, beyond being a Constitutional scholar (which is an underrated quality, imo, but generally one would want more in the qualifications bucket than just that

I can appreciate that Jude, Obama was elected on premise of above, as well as his clear objective of getting ACA thru no matter what. Under the hood the engine of the country is not run as we might all think, and Obama had great intentions but its like rounding up thousands of minnows without a net. The NSA revelation where we are told Obama had no knowledge of our allies, of IMF, of World Bank, etc being under surveillance for years, and they took orders not from him but from some other org, and as soon as he heard this, as well as our allies heard this and made plenty of scowls and fist waves of anger, he had NSA cease, is troubling. It has a feel of a massive chaos ship that isnt captained so much as aimed, and certain info is released to mainstream as certain parties see fit for their own ends.

We wont know the real story for years, which sucks.