Affordable Health Care Law under review by SCOTUS

[chancellor]

Best description of the healthcare.gov site: http://dilbert.com/dyn/str_strip/000...rip.sunday.gif

[nots]

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/crisis-time-obamacare-130406721.html

[Judge Jude]

"Health care should be universally available to everyone at no out of pocket cost."

As ridiculous and distracting as the whole "death panel" phrasing was, what do we do about a broke 90-year-old who wants a million dollars worth of experimental treatment? And remember, the clearly-stated promise - by the President and many leading backers here - is that health care costs for the average Joe would not go up at all. Heck, they'll be going DOWN.

If we can do all that, wonderful.

Can we do all that?

[TranaGreg]

"Health care should be universally available to everyone at no out of pocket cost."

As ridiculous and distracting as the whole "death panel" phrasing was, what do we do about a broke 90-year-old who wants a million dollars worth of experimental treatment?

the same thing every other country with a health care plan does - set a bar of what is generally acceptable and work with it; health care technology is constantly evolving so it requires regular updating, but we have a generally accepted sense that basic care will be covered; experimental treatments will not. It's not perfect - there are loopholes, and some people can work the system - but the benefit of everyone being covered for basic care far outweighs those, at least in most canadian's opinions that I talk to.

[johnnya24]

As ridiculous and distracting as the whole "death panel" phrasing was, what do we do about a broke 90-year-old who wants a million dollars worth of experimental treatment?

Experimental treatments are not part of national health plans. Plans usually have a standard set of accepted procedures (and drugs) for each condition, and when a new treatment comes along that is proven, the standards are updated. But for instance, if there is an incurable illness, and some Swiss Doctor claims to have a miracle cure, that will have to be privately funded.

I'm not sure what relevance age has to do with it?

[Judge Jude]

Well, I guess the answer is that yes, there are limits.
It does help that so many other countries have done this already, so we have a template to work with.

meanwhile, hmm

http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/28/21213547-obama-admin-knew-millions-could-not-keep-their-health-insurance

"President Obama repeatedly assured Americans that after the Affordable Care Act became law, people who liked their health insurance would be able to keep it. But millions of Americans are getting or are about to get cancellation letters for their health insurance under Obamacare, say experts, and the Obama administration has known that for at least three years.

Four sources deeply involved in the Affordable Care Act tell NBC NEWS that 50 to 75 percent of the 14 million consumers who buy their insurance individually can expect to receive a “cancellation” letter or the equivalent over the next year because their existing policies don’t meet the standards mandated by the new health care law. One expert predicts that number could reach as high as 80 percent. And all say that many of those forced to buy pricier new policies will experience “sticker shock.” "

...............

I realize that the right is already angry/apoplectic on health care and the left then gets defensive, so no matter what comes out, it's downplayed. But did Obama not mean this group when he kept saying, "If you like your current insurance, you can keep it?" And if he didn't mean them, then this article is misleading.

[chancellor]

I realize that the right is already angry/apoplectic on health care and the left then gets defensive, so no matter what comes out, it's downplayed. But did Obama not mean this group when he kept saying, "If you like your current insurance, you can keep it?" And if he didn't mean them, then this article is misleading.

Of course he meant everybody, though some solid reporting by CBS is sure indicating they knew better all the way back in '09.

Serial lying is the hallmark of this administration; this is merely another "ends justify the means" story. If the president hadn't repeatedly stated "If you like your current insurance, you can keep it" or some close variant thereof, ACA would never have passed.

[Moonlight J]

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/115391/obamacare-policy-cancellations-why-non-group-market-needed-fixing

Yes, he did. And he was wrong to make that promise, at least in such clear-cut terms. It applies perfectly well to the overwhelming majority of Americans who get insurance from an employer, Medicare, or Medicaid, since these plans and programs aren't really changing in ways that most consumers would notice. But people who buy coverage on their own, through brokers or directly from insurers, are in for some big changes. They constitute a tiny portion of the population but, because this is a large country, they are still a sizable group in raw numbers. (Somewhere between 10 and 20 million, depending whose estimates you believe.) Many of them are the ones hearing from insurers now. It would have been perfectly fine for Obama to say most Americans get to keep their coverage or to qualify his statement in some other way. And administration officials offered such nuance when asked. But Obama offered more absolute and ironclad promises when he spoke publicly—and, distressingly, some of his advisors are making similarly sweeping statements now. Such declarations lie "somewhere between an oversimplification and a falsehood," as Jonathan Chait puts it. In short, the president's critics have a point. But ultimately the more important question is about what’s actually happening to these people losing their current policies—and why. This transformation is not just a consequence of Obamacare. It's very much the intent. And for very good reason.

I enjoyed this read

[gcstomp]

Serial lying? Wow, Obama said if you like your current insurance you can keep it. He should have said 96%+ would be able to keep what they have, with 4% having such inferior products that they no longer will exist as they arent meeting minimum level of ACA threshhold of what insurance is.

Most people have insurance thru their jobs and of course have zero negative change to their status, they can keep their insurance. The 14 million people affected, who buy their private insurance thru brokers or directly thru insurers, so under 4% of the country, had policies so inferior that they did not qualify for the minimum standards of the ACA and so those policies no longer exist. The ACA marketplace has choices, or you could still buy insurance thru private carries on your own. I know in my case I shopped the marketplace and my rates are about $10 higher a month for vastly better insurance. 2 other persons in this thread had personal, not some third hand, I heard it on FOX experience, but shopped marketplace themselves and have said their ACA insurance is way better coverage than they had prior.

The outrage is trumped up, a repetitive false canard of stick wavers who desperately cling to their storyline and adjust facts to mesh with their reality. Obama is bad news, thru that lens all is filtered to create such "outrage".

[Hornsby]

Serial lying? Wow, Obama said if you like your current insurance you can keep it. He should have said 96%+ would be able to keep what they have, with 4% having such inferior products that they no longer will exist as they arent meeting minimum level of ACA threshhold of what insurance is.

Most people have insurance thru their jobs and of course have zero negative change to their status, they can keep their insurance. The 14 million people affected, who buy their private insurance thru brokers or directly thru insurers, so under 4% of the country, had policies so inferior that they did not qualify for the minimum standards of the ACA and so those policies no longer exist. The ACA marketplace has choices, or you could still buy insurance thru private carries on your own. I know in my case I shopped the marketplace and my rates are about $10 higher a month for vastly better insurance. 2 other persons in this thread had personal, not some third hand, I heard it on FOX experience, but shopped marketplace themselves and have said their ACA insurance is way better coverage than they had prior.

The outrage is trumped up, a repetitive false canard of stick wavers who desperately cling to their storyline and adjust facts to mesh with their reality. Obama is bad news, thru that lens all is filtered to create such "outrage".

Very well stated. Factual experience will trump hyperbole...eventually.

[revo]

Serial lying is the hallmark of this administration; this is merely another "ends justify the means" story. If the president hadn't repeatedly stated "If you like your current insurance, you can keep it" or some close variant thereof, ACA would never have passed.

Well, of course there's always this:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/01/23/bush.iraq/

[chancellor]

Why is the blame for all of this not being thrown at the feet of the real perpetrators, the insurance industry?

Uh, because the insurance industry didn't lie to get the bill passed?

Individual insurance plans with low premiums often lack basic benefits, such as prescription drug coverage, or carry high deductibles and out-of-pocket costs. The Affordable Care Act requires all companies to offer more benefits, such as mental health care, and also bars companies from denying coverage for preexisting conditions."

Isn't that the whole goddamn point of this whole legislation? The insurance companies have been ritually fucking people, particularly those most vulnerable, for years and years and this law forces their standards to be higher. This is the whole point of Obamacare.

In part, yes, but I believe the bill was sold on making the uninsurable insurable (such as those with pre-existing conditions), lowering costs due to market forces and subsidies, and..."you can keep your insurance (or doctor), you can keep it (them)".

I'm missing your point about high deductible plans, though. I have a lot of self-employed friends (mostly engineering contractors) who use these, with pre-tax deductions (I think they're HSAs, I may be wrong on the acromym). They find them to be good value since they're looking for insurance for catastrophic events (like a stroke or heart attack) and could give a crap about contraception or mental health or some of the other features added to meet ACA minimums.

[johnnya24]

Well, of course there's always this:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/01/23/bush.iraq/

You do realize that everyone who links to Unamerican articles like that are going to be flagged as potential agitants

Expect to be audited.

[chancellor]

Well, of course there's always this:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/01/23/bush.iraq/

Mostly true, yes. But add on spying on journalists, spying on citizens, IRS political targeting, Benghazi being the fault of some stupid anti-Mohammed video, Libyan opposition being "minimally" involved with Al-Qaeda, and a host of others I could list, and they're making Dick Cheney look honest by comparison. And that's a damn difficult challenge.

[chancellor]

Serial lying? Wow, Obama said if you like your current insurance you can keep it. He should have said 96%+ would be able to keep what they have, with 4% having such inferior products that they no longer will exist as they arent meeting minimum level of ACA threshhold of what insurance is.

LOL! Well, no duh that about 35% of the population would automatically keep what they have - they're on Medicare or Medicaid. Between 105 -110 million are on one of those two programs, and other than the cuts to Medicare as part of the ACA, they weren't ever going to be affected.

The 14 million people affected, who buy their private insurance thru brokers or directly thru insurers, so under 4% of the country, had policies so inferior that they did not qualify for the minimum standards of the ACA and so those policies no longer exist.

As the NBC article accurately notes, it's not 14 million people - it's 14 million insurance purchasers, which impacts much more than 14 million people.

The ACA marketplace has choices, or you could still buy insurance thru private carries on your own. I know in my case I shopped the marketplace and my rates are about $10 higher a month for vastly better insurance. 2 other persons in this thread had personal, not some third hand, I heard it on FOX experience, but shopped marketplace themselves and have said their ACA insurance is way better coverage than they had prior.

Some are better. Some policies are lower cost. Some are not better. Some are more expensive. The NBC article outlines it pretty well - and NBC is hardly a right-wing news station. And all that is predicated by being able to access the ACA marketplace through the website, which is still poorly performing (and was completely down this weekend - AGAIN).

The outrage is trumped up, a repetitive false canard of stick wavers who desperately cling to their storyline and adjust facts to mesh with their reality.

LOL! The facts that are being adjusted here are by you and the Carneyites of the administration. First, it was "you can keep your insurance if you like it". Now, it's "well, maybe, if it meets ACA standards we didn't tell you about when we knew them...buuuut, you'll get better insurance at lower cost....well, some of the time."