Have you ever been TRULY Poor?

[GwynnInTheHall]

With all the talk about social programs and their benefit to society as a whole I couldn't help but think to myself--How many of these guys in here have been poor and I mean truly poor.

See how many of these questions you can answer yes:

Have you ever been on welfare?
Do your kids get free school lunches?
Have you been on Medicaid/Medicare?
Have you ever received food stamps?
Qualified for section 8?
Been homeless?
Been evicted?
Had utilities turned off due to lack of payment?
Had a car repossessed?
Gone without medical care due to lack of insurance?
Had warrants issued because you couldn't pay your traffic tickets?
Had your license/registration suspended because you couldn't afford car insurance?
Been down to your actual "last' dollar?--and I mean, nothing to see/pawn, no savings, nothing in the bank, nothing in the wallet--the actual LAST dollar you have.
Cashed in your loose change to put food in the house?
Pawned anything?
Lost anything you pawned because you couldn't afford to get it out of hock?
Had your storage auctioned off?
Had to decide between gas for your car and milk for your kids?

I'm forgetting a few scenarios, but you get the drift.

How many of you honestly can say you can answer yes to even half of these questions?

If you can't, do you really think you can speak to what is or is not important with regards to programs for the poor?

I can say yes to all but one of these questions. Though things are much better now, had it not been for these programs I could have answered ALL of them yes. And I'm an educated (2 degrees), hard working (when I can find work), drug free (had a drag on a joint when I was 19, but that's it), responsible parent who served his country and had never asked for help before this year.

These programs are important--we all need to make sure they are there for those who truly need them. One day you might need help and I can only hope that those making the decisions to grant you help (and keep these programs) have mindsets more like mine. because if they think like some of you, you might just pass me up in the "Answer Yes" dept.

[Moonlight J]

Have you ever been on welfare? - as a kid, yes
Do your kids get free school lunches? as a kid, yes
Have you been on Medicaid/Medicare?
Have you ever received food stamps?- as a kid, yes
Qualified for section 8?
Been homeless?- as a kid, yes
Been evicted?- as a kid, yes
Had utilities turned off due to lack of payment?- as a kid, yes
Had a car repossessed?
Gone without medical care due to lack of insurance? as an adult, yet
Had warrants issued because you couldn't pay your traffic tickets?
Had your license/registration suspended because you couldn't afford car insurance?
Been down to your actual "last' dollar?--and I mean, nothing to see/pawn, no savings, nothing in the bank, nothing in the wallet--the actual LAST dollar you have.
Cashed in your loose change to put food in the house? as an adult, yes
Pawned anything?
Lost anything you pawned because you couldn't afford to get it out of hock?
Had your storage auctioned off?
Had to decide between gas for your car and milk for your kids?

[johnnya24]

Was a student for 10 years ... so being broke comes with the territory ... and no welfare or social aid benefits to help students. I did get private grants, but they never last that long. In fact the system seems to be completely against students all the way ... which kind off explains why our universities, which were once regarded as among the best in the world are turning to sh!t. Students don't vote, students can't win you an election ... so both the parties have cut the heart out of our education system. Tony Blair is such a c*nt.

Have you ever been on welfare? (for £50 per week ... not even worth it ... was always able to find agency work when I needed it ... Edit: I did get my NI paid for a while ... so I guess that counts)
Do your kids get free school lunches? (n/a ... no kids)
Have you been on Medicaid/Medicare? (National Health Service - the NHS is the fifth largest employer in the world ... our crown jewel ... largest employer? US Military. Seems you can't have war and proper health care )
Have you ever received food stamps? (n/a ... we don't have this system ... I imagine it would be regarded as degrading)
Qualified for section 8? (n/a ... I'm sure my credit rating has completely stank in the past though)
Been homeless? (n/a ... housing benefit is an extra to welfare ... no-one should ever technically be homeless here)
Been evicted? (n/a ... never been an issue)
Had utilities turned off due to lack of payment? (have made plenty of them chase up late payments though )
Had a car repossessed? (no ... not sure any of my cars would be worth repo'ing)
Gone without medical care due to lack of insurance? (NHS)
Had warrants issued because you couldn't pay your traffic tickets? (no)
Had your license/registration suspended because you couldn't afford car insurance? (no)
Been down to your actual "last' dollar?--and I mean, nothing to see/pawn, no savings, nothing in the bank, nothing in the wallet--the actual LAST dollar you have. (yeah a few times ... part of life as a student)
Cashed in your loose change to put food in the house? (was always careful and tried to keep on top of things ... so made sure this was never an issue ... which wasn't aided by my ex being a shopaholic / spendaholic ... twice she spend her last £70 on a haircut!!)
Pawned anything? (haven't seen a pawn shop in years ... I've sold stuff though ... but more to get rid of junk)
Lost anything you pawned because you couldn't afford to get it out of hock? (n/a)
Had your storage auctioned off? (n/a)
Had to decide between gas for your car and milk for your kids? (n/a)

[chancellor]

Yup, when I was single. I laughed at the car questions - heck, I was so poor I couldn't buy a car until I was 23, much less have it reposessed or not have insurance on it. Qualified for welfare, but refused to go on. Went without health insurance for a long time. Haven't had a traffic ticket since I had my own car.

Finally got back into school, finished my degree in a marketable area, and saved like crazy once I had a job. Being poor definitely sharpened my budgeting skills, and my care around saving.

[hacko]

Going through a divorce tell you in august after the hearing

[Judge Jude]

I have been at the absolute edge of quite a few of those, to the point of making sure bills were postmarked in time to qualify as being "on time" yet not cashable until I had the money in the account a couple of days later. Gathering up loose change for food, yes. Ever zero in savings, yes. The first time I ever went out to eat in a restaurant - other than a Howard Johnson's on a family driving vacation - I was 21. Made my first plane trip a year later.

But I don't think that barely finding a way to avoid the worst of those items on the list makes me less qualified to understand the situation than someone who did not avoid such a fate.

I also made some mistakes when I was a young adult that contributed to my situation, which is often but by no means always the case.

[The Dane]

Have you ever been on welfare? Yes, when I was young.
Do your kids get free school lunches? I did when I was in school.
Have you been on Medicaid/Medicare?
Have you ever received food stamps?
Qualified for section 8?
Been homeless? I left home at 18, and spent 6 months hitchhiking and living out of doors. I suppose I could have found a place to crash if I wanted.
Been evicted?
Had utilities turned off due to lack of payment?
Had a car repossessed? No, but I went many years without owning a car.
Gone without medical care due to lack of insurance? Yes, for many many years.
Had warrants issued because you couldn't pay your traffic tickets?
Had your license/registration suspended because you couldn't afford car insurance?
Been down to your actual "last' dollar?--and I mean, nothing to see/pawn, no savings, nothing in the bank, nothing in the wallet--the actual LAST dollar you have. Yes, and not so long ago. A bunch of bills came due and some surprise costs came up and after I paid my bills, I had $20 to live on for the month. I made it. I ate all the old soup in my cabinets and signed up for any free meal I could find. I scavenged from everywhere. Anyone that owned me a meal paid up that month. I had security of a paid apartment and I lived close enough to work to walk, so that was a luxury, but I couldn't really BUY anything. It was stressful, but somewhat empowering, I must say. I wasn't sure I could do it.
Cashed in your loose change to put food in the house? Yes. Several times.
Pawned anything? Yes.
Lost anything you pawned because you couldn't afford to get it out of hock?
Had your storage auctioned off?
Had to decide between gas for your car and milk for your kids?

[Fresno Bob]

None of the above for me, but ive carried my buddies when they've been in this position as i know they would have done for me, at one point we had 8 people living in in a 600 square foot cottage with no telephone service and no heat.

[Lucky]

A couple of things...

When I was a kid, we lived out in the boonies. We hunted and fished for a great deal of our food. My dad worked on construction sites, and I started working at 12, during the summers and part-time during the school year, on local farms and chicken houses. We never considered ourselves to be poor, though, since we were better off than most of the people who lived around us. We were never hungry, since we raised vegetables, and ate fish and game. I'm not going to say we didn't break a few G&F rules...we took quite a few deer, rabbits, squirrels, ducks, etc. I was able to go to college because of a National Merit Scholarship. But again, we didn't consider ourselves to be poor, even though we didn't have any money.

I think being a student is a different deal. Most people I know were dirt poor as a student. That's just part of being a student. There was one summer school where I worked nights, went to school in the day, and ate basically nothing but potatoes, onions and Kraft Macaroni & Cheese, which was five boxes for a dollar. Driving a POS car that stayed broken down half the time, never having a dollar to buy a girl a soda, much less a pizza...again, just being a student. I did go hungry a few times in graduate school, and did sell plasma to make ends meet. But I didn't think that much of it at the time.

When I first started practicing law, it was fairly difficult. I made $15,000 a year, and with student loan payments, vehicle payments, etc., it was a stretch. I lived part of the time behind a beauty shop, and part of the time in a workshop I turned into a one-room apartment. But, still, I didn't feel poor, since I had a steady income and never went hungry.

I grew up around people who were truly poor...some who had dirt floors in their houses. So I felt very fortunate.

The ideas that people have about welfare, though, just kill me. The BS stories, urban myths about welfare recipients, demonstrate a fundamental lack of understanding.

A lot of people are on welfare due, at least in part, to mistakes they have made, but with so many it's a question of falling and not being able to get up.

One of the things that P***es me off the most is the "drug testing" requirement some politicians want to put in place for welfare recipients. There are a lot of segments of society who need to be drug tested a lot more than welfare recipients. Beside, empirical studies have shown that welfare recipients who are drug tested show positive less than the general population. But, it is fashionable to be "tough" on welfare, so we get this kind of crap legislation.

Sorry, 80% of this didn't answer the questions, but welfare is a sensitive area for me. The people I see on a weekly basis are just heartbreaking. I don't see how they make it. Even those people with full-time jobs at minimum wage...how do they make it with a child or two to support? Minimum wage works out to about $15K a year, before taxes. That wasn't very much money 30 years ago. I can't imagine trying to get by on that now.

I'm touched and saddened by some of the stories above of people here in the BullPen who were devastatingly poor at one point in their lives. Dane, Jason, and Doig especially. All I can say to you is that I admire you greatly for being able to push through those bad times and make it to where you are today. Your bravery and strength of character are inspiring. You guys who faced poverty later in life are also worthy of our respect.

[GwynnInTheHall]

A couple of things...

When I was a kid, we lived out in the boonies. We hunted and fished for a great deal of our food. My dad worked on construction sites, and I started working at 12, during the summers and part-time during the school year, on local farms and chicken houses. We never considered ourselves to be poor, though, since we were better off than most of the people who lived around us. We were never hungry, since we raised vegetables, and ate fish and game. I'm not going to say we didn't break a few G&F rules...we took quite a few deer, rabbits, squirrels, ducks, etc. I was able to go to college because of a National Merit Scholarship. But again, we didn't consider ourselves to be poor, even though we didn't have any money.

I think being a student is a different deal. Most people I know were dirt poor as a student. That's just part of being a student. There was one summer school where I worked nights, went to school in the day, and ate basically nothing but potatoes, onions and Kraft Macaroni & Cheese, which was five boxes for a dollar. Driving a POS car that stayed broken down half the time, never having a dollar to buy a girl a soda, much less a pizza...again, just being a student. I did go hungry a few times in graduate school, and did sell plasma to make ends meet. But I didn't think that much of it at the time.

When I first started practicing law, it was fairly difficult. I made $15,000 a year, and with student loan payments, vehicle payments, etc., it was a stretch. I lived part of the time behind a beauty shop, and part of the time in a workshop I turned into a one-room apartment. But, still, I didn't feel poor, since I had a steady income and never went hungry.

I grew up around people who were truly poor...some who had dirt floors in their houses. So I felt very fortunate.

The ideas that people have about welfare, though, just kill me. The BS stories, urban myths about welfare recipients, demonstrate a fundamental lack of understanding.

A lot of people are on welfare due, at least in part, to mistakes they have made, but with so many it's a question of falling and not being able to get up.

One of the things that P***es me off the most is the "drug testing" requirement some politicians want to put in place for welfare recipients. There are a lot of segments of society who need to be drug tested a lot more than welfare recipients. Beside, empirical studies have shown that welfare recipients who are drug tested show positive less than the general population. But, it is fashionable to be "tough" on welfare, so we get this kind of crap legislation.

Sorry, 80% of this didn't answer the questions, but welfare is a sensitive area for me. The people I see on a weekly basis are just heartbreaking. I don't see how they make it. Even those people with full-time jobs at minimum wage...how do they make it with a child or two to support? Minimum wage works out to about $15K a year, before taxes. That wasn't very much money 30 years ago. I can't imagine trying to get by on that now.

I'm touched and saddened by some of the stories above of people here in the BullPen who were devastatingly poor at one point in their lives. Dane, Jason, and Doig especially. All I can say to you is that I admire you greatly for being able to push through those bad times and make it to where you are today. Your bravery and strength of character are inspiring. You guys who faced poverty later in life are also worthy of our respect.

Brutha,

I didn't initiate this post for sympathy because frankly, I'm a damn lucky guy. Finances to me. are the least important thing in my world. I'm very healthy having never been in the hospital in my life, no major illnesses and still am going strong at 50. I've 2 great daughters who are top of their classes, healthy as well, very stable, for 11 and 13 , and know they're safe and loved. I've got 3 jobs , a place to live, a car to drive, great friends and I never give up--ever. Sure it's tough, but I know there are many people that have it far worse. So please don't take my post above as me complaining about my situation--**** happens, you choose to find a way or you don't. I have and will continue to do so (though I miss having cable lol)

I also am not trying to say that if you haven been poor you can't have ANY idea about the services being talked about in these threads, just that it helps to have some perspective.

It's interesting to see how many people have shared the same experiences I have. It gives me hope that one day, if we've all walked a similar path, at least for a while, we can eventually make strides as a species.

[Lucky]

Doig,

I really didn't take your post as complaining (or fishing for sympathy), but your story nonetheless is moving. I'm proud to know you, and I think you have your priorities in better order than most people I know. I'm guessing that part of having your priorities in such good shape comes, at least in part, from seeing how hard life can be.

[heyelander]

Going through a divorce tell you in august after the hearing

cripes, hacko is so poor he can't even afford a shirt or long pants in winter...

[johnnya24]

FWIW ... happiest memories are from when I had little or nothing ... hand-to-mouthing it around European festivals in the summer ... good times.

[virgonomic]

I'm touched and saddened by some of the stories above of people here in the BullPen who were devastatingly poor at one point in their lives. Dane, Jason, and Doig especially. All I can say to you is that I admire you greatly for being able to push through those bad times and make it to where you are today. Your bravery and strength of character are inspiring. You guys who faced poverty later in life are also worthy of our respect.

Well said. I have much respect for you guys. Even more knowing that you've been through some tough stretches in life. My parents, both teachers, divorced when I was 8. I lived a typical middle-class life. Few extravagances, until I later started paying for them myself.

FWIW ... happiest memories are from when I had little or nothing ... hand-to-mouthing it around European festivals in the summer ... good times.

Me too, though it's on a different scale. One of the fondest times I remember was a 4-month stretch when I was unemployed, collecting Employment Insurance of $1600/mo and living in an apt that cost $1000/mo. (I had signed a lease after getting a new job that only lasted a few months). I also had car payments and insurance. I applied for 4 months forgiveness from my student loans and spent my days surfing the net for jobs, ran, cooked and went to karaoke and snuck into movies for fun. I eventually got a job at the GAP put of boredom and later a serving job at Eats Side Mario's which I held until I went back to school the next year.

[Piney Boy]

I actually have had a couple of hits on this list, but never been close to homeless so I consider myself never TRULY poor. Now on the other hand my wife and I just met a 19 year old kid that is most likely my oldest daughter's new boyfriend. He is someone that my daughter has known for a while (since she was in 5th grade most likely), but she has not been around that much since he was older and was taken out of the private school she they were at and home schooled. Now this kid is just about homeless. He lost his "room" he was in which was in a hotel since he could not pay rent. Lost his job at a restaurant. He starts working construction today. Only money he had left he was going to use to get another hotel room for Saturday night. That was the first night I met him. Wow what a shock.

I dropped him off there not knowing what I just learned. Called my wife on the way home since she spent more time with him during the day and she did not know that. He has a bad relationship with his parents. Lets just say the bells are going off in my head about a possible relationship with my daughter, but I can't let this kid spend a night outdoors when his money runs out.

Well he did not have enough for a room on Saturday, but he spent the night at a friends house that night. He was to go to church with us in the morning, but he missed the pick up time. No biggie. My wife caught up with him later when my daughter had to go to work and he stayed with us last night. He is to spend the night with us again. I just can't find it in myself to tell him to move on. He is a nice enough kid, courteous, etc.

All this reminded me of the questions GITH posted. Wow. He qualifies for most of these questions though probably has not gotten any state assistance yet. Even though times are tough for us I want to help him him get on his feet also.