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  • #1

    Glenn Greenwald

    Here's his latest article about the dangers of the growing surveillance state, chilling stuff.

    Warrantless surveillance and the new Coretta Scott King disclosures
    http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2011/08/19/surveillance/index.html
    The FBI's past warrantless surveillance abuses demonstrate the severe dangers of the FISA bill just passed by the Democratic Congress.


    The free flow of information and communications enabled by new technologies -- as protest movements in the Middle East and a wave of serious leaks over the last year have demonstrated -- is a uniquely potent weapon in challenging entrenched government power and other powerful factions. And that is precisely why those in power -- those devoted to preservation of the prevailing social order -- are so increasingly fixated on seizing control of it and snuffing out its potential for subverting that order: they are well aware of, and are petrified by, its power, and want to ensure that the ability to dictate how it is used, and toward what ends, remains exclusively in their hands.
    If DMT didn't exist we would have to invent it. There has to be a weirdest thing. Once we have the concept weird, there has to be a weirdest thing. And DMT is simply it.
    - Terence McKenna

    Bullshit is everywhere. - George Carlin (& Jon Stewart)

    How old would you be if you didn't know how old you are? - Satchel Paige
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  • #2
    Originally posted by DMT View Post
    Here's his latest article about the dangers of the growing surveillance state, chilling stuff.

    http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/gl...nce/index.html
    Chilling indeed....

    hasn't PaleoMan been telling us that all along?
    Last edited by Mithrandir; 08-20-2011, 09:07 AM.
    "I lingered round them, under that benign sky: watched the moths fluttering among the heath and harebells, listened to the soft wind breathing through the grass, and wondered how any one could ever imagine unquiet slumbers for the sleepers in that quiet earth."

    Comment

    • #3
      Originally posted by Mithrandir View Post
      Chilling indeed....

      hasn't PaleoMan been telling us that al along?
      Yeah ... but it's not necessarily what he says, it's how and why he says it.

      Comment

      • #4
        For all of those on the Obama rally train, let's not forget how horrible he continues to be with regards to civil liberties.

        http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/sep/18/obama-appeals-ndaa-detention-law


        Is that not amazing? On the very same day that the Obama DOJ fights vigorously in US courts for the right to imprison people without charges, the Afghan government fights just as vigorously for basic due process.

        Remember: the US, we're frequently told, is in Afghanistan to bring democracy to the Afghan people and to teach them about freedom. But the Afghan government is refusing the US demand to imprison people without charges on the ground that such lawless detention violates their conceptions of basic freedom. Maybe Afghanistan should invade the US in order to teach Americans about freedom.
        If DMT didn't exist we would have to invent it. There has to be a weirdest thing. Once we have the concept weird, there has to be a weirdest thing. And DMT is simply it.
        - Terence McKenna

        Bullshit is everywhere. - George Carlin (& Jon Stewart)

        How old would you be if you didn't know how old you are? - Satchel Paige

        Comment

        • #5
          Originally posted by DMT View Post
          Here's his latest article about the dangers of the growing surveillance state, chilling stuff.

          http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/gl...nce/index.html
          I disagree with Greenwald a fair amount on other topics, but he's pretty much the gold standard here. Awesome money quote:

          A redistribution of wealth and power more than three decades in the making has now been carved into the system and given the stamp of permanence.

          Only a Democratic president, and only one associated in the public mind (however wrongly) with the fortunes of the poor, could have accomplished such a reversal with such sickening completeness.
          May be a new sig.
          I'm just here for the baseball.

          Comment

          • #6
            Originally posted by chancellor View Post
            I disagree with Greenwald a fair amount on other topics, but he's pretty much the gold standard here. Awesome money quote:



            May be a new sig.
            Speaking of money quotes -
            In 2009, the Obama administration decided that it wanted to target certain Afghan citizens for due process-free assassinations on the ground that the targets to be executed were drug "kingpins". They were to be killed based solely on US accusations, with no trial, just as the Obama administration does with its own citizens.
            ---------------------------------------------
            Champagne for breakfast and a Sherman in my hand !
            ---------------------------------------------
            The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
            George Orwell, 1984
            ​

            Comment

            • #7
              Originally posted by DMT View Post
              For all of those on the Obama rally train, let's not forget how horrible he continues to be with regards to civil liberties.
              When I cast my lukewarm vote for Obama in 2008, I comforted myself by thinking "At least I'll get to see Bush's worst Patriot Act/ Homeland Security crapola rolled back." The Prez has been a crushing disappointment on this front. Does anyone here disagree?
              "When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less."
              "The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things."
              "The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master - that's all."

              Comment

              • #8
                Originally posted by senorsheep View Post
                When I cast my lukewarm vote for Obama in 2008, I comforted myself by thinking "At least I'll get to see Bush's worst Patriot Act/ Homeland Security crapola rolled back." The Prez has been a crushing disappointment on this front. Does anyone here disagree?
                Nope. I thought the Patriot Act was mostly Bush (well, Cheney), but I have been proven wrong by Obama.

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                • #9
                  good article. more awareness is needed to bring this discussion into the open.

                  re: the whole concept of the big brother state, I heard a great quote at a work conference recently ... paraphrasing the speaker, everyone used to fear government & law enforcement agencies building a huge database on everyone; well it's now been done, but not by government - if you combine facebook, twitter, google maps street view, and a few other sources you have access to more info than any government official ever dreamed possible, and ironically enough it's been compiled by everyone volunteering their own information.
                  It certainly feels that way. But I'm distrustful of that feeling and am curious about evidence.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Originally posted by TranaGreg View Post
                    good article. more awareness is needed to bring this discussion into the open.

                    re: the whole concept of the big brother state, I heard a great quote at a work conference recently ... paraphrasing the speaker, everyone used to fear government & law enforcement agencies building a huge database on everyone; well it's now been done, but not by government - if you combine facebook, twitter, google maps street view, and a few other sources you have access to more info than any government official ever dreamed possible, and ironically enough it's been compiled by everyone volunteering their own information.
                    How long before a technological society like the world of "Minority Report" minus the precog element exists?
                    If I whisper my wicked marching orders into the ether with no regard to where or how they may bear fruit, I am blameless should a broken spirit carry those orders out upon the innocent, for it was not my hand that took the action merely my lips which let slip their darkest wish. ~Daniel Devereaux 2011

                    Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
                    Martin Luther King, Jr.

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                    • #11
                      I know I've posted it already and there's been discussion on it, but do any of you really think that Barack Obama has wanted to keep that crap going? It bothers me that he's seen security reasons compelling enough to do so, honestly.
                      "There is involved in this struggle the question whether your children and my children shall enjoy the privileges we have enjoyed. I say this in order to impress upon you, if you are not already so impressed, that no small matter should divert us from our great purpose. "

                      Abraham Lincoln, from his Address to the Ohio One Hundred Sixty Fourth Volunteer Infantry

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Bob Kohm View Post
                        I know I've posted it already and there's been discussion on it, but do any of you really think that Barack Obama has wanted to keep that crap going? It bothers me that he's seen security reasons compelling enough to do so, honestly.
                        It would be one thing to merely 'keep that crap going' (which was already dubious morally and legally); it's an entirely different thing to try to expand it exponentially and target those who stand in the way.
                        If DMT didn't exist we would have to invent it. There has to be a weirdest thing. Once we have the concept weird, there has to be a weirdest thing. And DMT is simply it.
                        - Terence McKenna

                        Bullshit is everywhere. - George Carlin (& Jon Stewart)

                        How old would you be if you didn't know how old you are? - Satchel Paige

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Bob Kohm View Post
                          I know I've posted it already and there's been discussion on it, but do any of you really think that Barack Obama has wanted to keep that crap going? It bothers me that he's seen security reasons compelling enough to do so, honestly.
                          Yeah he wants to keep that crap going. More government control.
                          "I lingered round them, under that benign sky: watched the moths fluttering among the heath and harebells, listened to the soft wind breathing through the grass, and wondered how any one could ever imagine unquiet slumbers for the sleepers in that quiet earth."

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Bob Kohm View Post
                            I know I've posted it already and there's been discussion on it, but do any of you really think that Barack Obama has wanted to keep that crap going? It bothers me that he's seen security reasons compelling enough to do so, honestly.
                            Doesn't matter what he 'really wants', only matters what he's done. And what he's done has been to put the Patriot Act on steroids.

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Originally posted by nots View Post
                              Doesn't matter what he 'really wants', only matters what he's done. And what he's done has been to put the Patriot Act on steroids.
                              True and while I'm very disappointed, I trust he had good reason to do so.
                              If I whisper my wicked marching orders into the ether with no regard to where or how they may bear fruit, I am blameless should a broken spirit carry those orders out upon the innocent, for it was not my hand that took the action merely my lips which let slip their darkest wish. ~Daniel Devereaux 2011

                              Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
                              Martin Luther King, Jr.

                              Comment

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