Will Smith vs Chris Rock

[GwynnInTheHall]

I don't think he should lose his Oscar... that is a punishment that has little to do with the crime.

I don't think he should be invited back though, as he has proven himself incapable of proper behavior there.

Does he ever get a second chance?

[Ken]

Does he ever get a second chance?

Maybe you've turned into a new GITH. And perhaps my previous example didn't make sense, but does this one?

Your previous post:

I don't forgive when I feel wronged because I believe in accountability

Feels like a completely different tone from you in this thread than others. In the past you were the first to say this is wrong and we shouldn't put up with it, no second chances. (pull them from their SUV, shame them for their pets in public, etc)

[GwynnInTheHall]

Maybe you've turned into a new GITH. And perhaps my previous example didn't make sense, but does this one?

Your previous post:



Feels like a completely different tone from you in this thread than others. In the past you were the first to say this is wrong and we shouldn't put up with it, no second chances. (pull them from their SUV, shame them for their pets in public, etc)

Are you under the impression I'm condoning Smiths behavior?

BTW accountability can be addressed with apology, penance and other contricious acts. Which once performed can lead to forgiveness. Also I believe that line is being taken out of context as we were speaking of things done to us (me) early in our lives by people who have left our lives without being accountable and therefore-no forgiveness.

[Ken]

Are you under the impression I'm condoning Smiths behavior?

No, I was actually just impressed with what I saw as a positive change and wondering if you agreed that you had changed your approach.

I don't have a strong opinion on Will Smith either direction.

[GwynnInTheHall]

No, I was actually just impressed with what I saw as a positive change and wondering if you agreed that you had changed your approach.

I don't have a strong opinion on Will Smith either direction.

I'm never going to be perfect, not even close. I'm always going to be an irritant to some people no matter how I approach things. I am trying to be the best version of myself each day--I do not always succeed. I know that once I've gone past the line--I sometimes continue down that road even if it's destructive for me.

My issue with certain takes in this post is that, no matter how shitty we might be, others might be--we should strive to understand that other person's situation which I feel some posters have ignored in Smith's case and find is somewhat hypocritical that some can vehemently denounce Smith given their own past indiscretions.

You know I have issues with some folks in here and they with me, but I've tried to be understanding as much as I can, apologize if needed and respect sincere requests. Still, I will at times fail and hurt/piss off or just plain annoy folks.

With that in mind, I don't see how I can be denigrating toward an individual who has done something I have done or might do.


And honestly, the Smith/Rock thing is inconsequential in the grand scheme though some might feel striking another person is a bigger deal than I do.

BTW, thanks for taking the time to answer my question. I was truly confused.

[Sour Masher]

I think getting upset that Smith wasn't removed from the Oscars sets a bad precedent, given all of questionable characters that have won (Harvey Weinstein, Casey Affleck, Roman Polanski, Woody Allen).

Past bad actors getting away with bad actions is no excuse for condoning further bad actions. The Oscars should have kicked out Adrien Brody when he forced a kiss on Halle Berry, the whole community should have stood up to predators long before they did, and they should have kicked Smith out immediately. Putting aside whether he was right or not to do it, I am surprised we cannot all agree the academy was wrong to not remove him from the premises, and it was creepy that he got a standing ovation just a little while later.

Also, I do not know the answer to this, but some have asked if Smith would have been handled the same way if he had smacked a white comedian for the same joke. I really don't know, but to me not condemning the academy's response to Smith's actions is more perplexing than being understanding about Smith's actions. Does anyone really think it was the right move for the academy to let him go sit back down after the slap and stick around? I assume/hope everyone who has said they might have done the same also would have accepted the consequence of being escorted out of the building after the assault. It is the reasonable and normal thing that would have happened to any of us in just about any other context. If any one of us defended our wife's honor with assault, we would absolutely be removed from the building in which it happened and likely would be arrested. Hell, if he had real consequences like that instead of getting to party all night, I'd be a little more sympathetic to him. But so far, he has faced no real consequences for his actions.

[Teenwolf]

Past bad actors getting away with bad actions is no excuse for condoning further bad actions. The Oscars should have kicked out Adrien Brody when he forced a kiss on Halle Berry, the whole community should have stood up to predators long before they did, and they should have kicked Smith out immediately. Putting aside whether he was right or not to do it, I am surprised we cannot all agree the academy was wrong to not remove him from the premises, and it was creepy that he got a standing ovation just a little while later.

Also, I do not know the answer to this, but some have asked if Smith would have been handled the same way if he had smacked a white comedian for the same joke. I really don't know, but to me not condemning the academy's response to Smith's actions is more perplexing than being understanding about Smith's actions. Does anyone really think it was the right move for the academy to let him go sit back down after the slap and stick around? I assume/hope everyone who has said they might have done the same also would have accepted the consequence of being escorted out of the building after the assault. It is the reasonable and normal thing that would have happened to any of us in just about any other context. If any one of us defended our wife's honor with assault, we would absolutely be removed from the building in which it happened and likely would be arrested. Hell, if he had real consequences like that instead of getting to party all night, I'd be a little more sympathetic to him. But so far, he has faced no real consequences for his actions.

I just disagree that this is some new level of despicable behaviour requiring immediate and swift punishment. I honestly dont know that i would press charges if i was slapped like that for a comment that i knew was intended to wound someone. I'm sure i have been slapped like that for drunken comments that deserved it. We cannot apply today's standards to 20 years ago. Nearly 2 decades before the 'me too' era, us men were able to get away with degrading women constantly. Kissing a woman on the lips without her permission wasn't viewed as an assault so much as it was considered 'rude'. That's why we all accepted or excused Brody at the time (and why I don't necessarily condemn him for it now).

Alec Baldwin did worse things when his underfunded movie got a crew member killed. Would you have him barred from attending if he were found criminally negligent? Is that the representation of Hollywood we want to see? Not necessairly, but the show has always exhibited questionable morals, including booing Michael Moore for speaking against the Iraq war. You choose to watch or not. You cannot go 'small hall' with the Oscars or you'd be further taking away from the celebration of the accomplishment (as you pointed out is a terrible thing), by shifting the focus to which actors should be allowed to the event or not based on their personal morality. No way, man. Focus on the show. Getting smacked and sworn at for an intentionally hurtful comment shouldn't be shocking, thats the intention. An open hand changes his intent from injury to public shaming, and he wasn't removed because it was immediately clear that he was finished with the physical part of the altercation. He didn't need to be held back, and wasn't intoxicated. Just made a bad decision on the world's biggest stage. Nobody had weapons or any of the concerns of escalation present in the real world. I consider the opportunity for everyone to engage in a civil discourse about a nuanced issue valuable in this day and age of Q-anon and other loonies.

I think his action deserved a public apology. His speech on the night was bad, apology afterward was good. Everything happened as it should have, for the most part. An important learning lesson for all.

[GwynnInTheHall]

Past bad actors getting away with bad actions is no excuse for condoning further bad actions. The Oscars should have kicked out Adrien Brody when he forced a kiss on Halle Berry, the whole community should have stood up to predators long before they did, and they should have kicked Smith out immediately. Putting aside whether he was right or not to do it, I am surprised we cannot all agree the academy was wrong to not remove him from the premises, and it was creepy that he got a standing ovation just a little while later.

Also, I do not know the answer to this, but some have asked if Smith would have been handled the same way if he had smacked a white comedian for the same joke. I really don't know, but to me not condemning the academy's response to Smith's actions is more perplexing than being understanding about Smith's actions. Does anyone really think it was the right move for the academy to let him go sit back down after the slap and stick around? I assume/hope everyone who has said they might have done the same also would have accepted the consequence of being escorted out of the building after the assault. It is the reasonable and normal thing that would have happened to any of us in just about any other context. If any one of us defended our wife's honor with assault, we would absolutely be removed from the building in which it happened and likely would be arrested. Hell, if he had real consequences like that instead of getting to party all night, I'd be a little more sympathetic to him. But so far, he has faced no real consequences for his actions.

I think I mentioned the existing double standard for the rich and famous

Btw, in looking back at my joke about onejays wife, reactions were pretty similar. Some were extremely angry stating such a comment could lead to a fight. Some thought it was varying degrees of poor taste. Some thought it was an innocuous joke. I was even told to shut my damn mouth via a scary looking rock meme by mr Colette. (It really wasn’t scary). Point being is this; everyone’s degree of sensitivity is different. What’s offensive and how we react are probably going to differ. So it stands to reason our ideas on how such an offense should be perceived and handled will be varied as well.

FWIW a couple of years after my poor choice in humor, onejay and I tried to meet up for lunch/dinner on a family trip through Texas. Time constraints made it not possible,but there was an effort made to be conciliatory. I believe the same will happen between Rock and the smiths.

[DMT]

Smith was asked to leave but refused. The defense of his actions is astounding to me.

[nullnor]

you guys are stupid

[GwynnInTheHall]

Smith was asked to leave but refused. The defense of his actions is astounding to me.

Serious question. Is saying you understand how he could have done what he did and stating that you might do the same--defending? I'm pretty sure almost everyone who's said the previous has also mentioned they thought Smith was wrong and should have handled it better.

[GwynnInTheHall]

you guys are stupid

Obviously.

[Sour Masher]

Smith was asked to leave but refused. The defense of his actions is astounding to me.

Yes, as is any defense of the academy that let him assault their host and did not escort him out of the building immediately. Judd Apatow put it well--Hollywood is adapt at ignoring and covering up. The front of that venue was filled with stars, and behind them, even more publicists and spin doctors whose job is to cover up, ignore, or spin the transgressions of the people up front. I cannot imagine another venue where a man could go up and assault someone on stage and not be made to leave. Only in Hollywood would that man get to sit back down until it was time for him to stand back up and get applauded. Then he went and partied all night long.

If I were Rock, I think I would have pressed charges.

[DMT]

Serious question. Is saying you understand how he could have done what he did and stating that you might do the same--defending? I'm pretty sure almost everyone who's said the previous has also mentioned they thought Smith was wrong and should have handled it better.

I wasn't responding directly to anyone here as I haven't really been following it closely. But the fact that he went from laughing at the joke to committing assault shows him to be completely at fault. Sure the joke was in poor taste, yet he himself laughed.

[nullnor]

jada pinkett smith was in one of the matrix movies right? I haven't really seen anything else she was in. pretty solid in the movie.

will smith is like a fucking god. so this whole thing is disappointing.

but clearly they divorced and as a guy I'll say Jada is fucking crazy. but now it doesn't seem as so.

btw that scientology movie After Earth with Will Smith and his son, is really fucking good.

so.. I have no opinion in this matter. I remain Switzerland.