Official Sexual Harrassment Thread

[gcstomp]

The Franken deal is not on same level as Moore of course, and I mean the photo, as Franken disputes the kiss. He was a comedian who thought he was making an goofball joke pic with someone who he misjudged as a entertainer peer having laughs at a USO tour. She was asleep wearing a flak jacket it appears, and Franken is maybe miming the honk honk and posing for the camera. He is now the clearest most outspoken voice of reason in congress, who dials in so well with questioning nonsense in session. To lose him over this makes zero sense, might as well blow up the last remaining vestiges of whats grounding our government from madness, as that is not the way. And Franken is calling for spotlight on his actions becuase he knows he is not some predator, but had a moment of poor judgement yucking it up for camera, at a time when any blind minute of the Jim Carey improv show of that era had more objectionable material.

Moore issued stubborn declaration of war against establishment in response to his 10 women speaking out against him, and his predatory ways. Franken on the other hand made as major an apology and ask for scrutiny as you could make, because they are opposite sides of the coin, and I do not mean D/R.

[Hornsby]

The Franken deal is not on same level as Moore of course, and I mean the photo, as Franken disputes the kiss. He was a comedian who thought he was making an goofball joke pic with someone who he misjudged as a entertainer peer having laughs at a USO tour. She was asleep wearing a flak jacket it appears, and Franken is maybe miming the honk honk and posing for the camera. He is now the clearest most outspoken voice of reason in congress, who dials in so well with questioning nonsense in session. To lose him over this makes zero sense, might as well blow up the last remaining vestiges of whats grounding our government from madness, as that is not the way. And Franken is calling for spotlight on his actions becuase he knows he is not some predator, but had a moment of poor judgement yucking it up for camera, at a time when any blind minute of the Jim Carey improv show of that era had more objectionable material.

Moore issued stubborn declaration of war against establishment in response to his 10 women speaking out against him, and his predatory ways. Franken on the other hand made as major an apology and ask for scrutiny as you could make, because they are opposite sides of the coin, and I do not mean D/R.

The problem is that he'll lose that moral high ground that's allowed him to grill Sessions so well. He'll be constantly 2nd guessed, laughed at behind his back, and not taken seriously for quite some time. He'll also wear the label of hypocrite, and that is NOT something that the Dems need right now.

I suspect that Franken is calling for his own investigation because he knows that it's the path of least resistance, no member of the Senate has been expelled since the late 1800's. So while he'll keep his seat if he wants, and maybe even win re-election for another term, I think that he's ceded that moral high ground at this point.

I think that Al is a good man, I've met him dozens of times, but he's been in show business and politics for 4 decades now, to think that there aren't more questionable incidents out there strains my credulity.

[Hornsby]

Interesting take by Nate Silver just a bit ago...

Almost all of these comments said that sexual harassment must be taken very, very seriously. But the remedy they propose for Franken — referring the allegations to the Senate ethics committee, a step that Republican leader Mitch McConnell, White House press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders and Franken himself have also called for — isn’t particularly serious. Unless, that is, the committee process led to Franken’s expulsion. But there have been many ethics investigations and very few expulsions — none since 1862 — and none of the statements made by Schumer or the other leaders raised the possibility of expulsion.

Moreover, it’s not quite clear what behavior the ethics committee would actually be investigating: Franken hasn’t really denied Tweeden’s claim that he kissed her without her consent, and there’s already photographic evidence that appears to show he groped her. It’s possible the investigation could turn up evidence of similar incidents involving Franken and other women. But if Franken is a repeat offender — as so many sexual harassers are — that’s all the more reason for Democrats to want him out of office now instead of dragging the party through the mud.

Of course, what might be politically expedient for Democrats isn’t necessarily expedient for Schumer — or for McConnell, or for the White House, all of whom may be acting out of a sense of institutional self-preservation. If there’s a precedent that sexual harassment is grounds for removal or resignation from office, then a lot of members of Congress — including some of Schumer’s colleagues and friends — could have to resign once more allegations come to light, as they almost certainly will. President Trump’s conduct could also come under renewed scrutiny, as could the conduct of former presidents Bill Clinton and George H.W. Bush. Politics is a male-dominated institution, and a conservative3 institution, and conservative, male-dominated institutions have pretty much no interest in flipping over the sexual harassment rock and seeing what comes crawling out from underneath it.

When we were thinking through the Franken story in FiveThrityEight’s internal Slack channel today, most of the men in our office thought that Franken was in deep trouble (“I think he’s toast,” I wrote at 11:07 this morning). Most of the women thought he’d hang in and survive. We’re less than a day into the story, but no surprise — it looks like the women will be right.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/democrats-missed-a-chance-to-draw-a-line-in-the-sand-on-sexual-misconduct/

[Redbirds Fan]

Ah, I didn't read about the kissing yet...I'll have to read up on that account. I was just going by the photo.

And I agree on Moore that the most damning thing is him being sexually aggressive with girls. I also happen to think just his desire and focus to date girls half his age and not emotionally mature speaks a great deal about who he is as well, even without the assault aspect of it.

Clinically, analysis of ephebophilia suggest it is typical for men to find girls in there mid to late teens physically attractive. After all, many girls in this age range share many or all physical characteristics with fully mature adult women. Hell, even today, heck, especially today, our whole culture overly sexualizes girls and boys this age. That said, there is a big difference between recognizing physically mature traits as attractive and being drawn to this age range and trying to date and engage in sexual activity with this age range.

The pockets of courting culture within which this sort of behavior was not/is not atypical speaks to the tremendous, endemic misogyny and oppression women face in these communities. The reason why older men were (still are in some places) often allowed to pursue much younger women was because it takes longer for someone to grow into a good paying job and establish oneself as the sole breadwinner of a family than it does to sexually mature. A man was seen primarily as provider, so to be ready for marriage, he had to wait till he could do that. While a woman is seen primarily as a caregiver, cook, and reproducer, so as soon as she knew how to cook and clean and could physically give birth, she was seen as having all that she needed to be a wife. The whole thing is clearly oppressive to women on its own, but in Moore’s case, it was clear he wasn’t seeking a wife. He was attracted to these girls, because they weren’t his equal. They were younger, less experienced, scared, etc. The whole thing screams predator to me, even without the actual assaults.

Sorry, SM, but this is just incorrect. There are some sub-cultures, particularly in the rural South, which permit older men to take girls in their young teens as brides, for the exact reasons you point out, as well as the fact that it leaves one less mouth to feed. But we aren't talking about Roy Moore looking for a wife. He was looking for someone to screw. Casual sexual encounters aren't part of the parents' plan.

[Kevin Seitzer]

Now the George HW Bush butt squeezing allegations are back to 1992. I hope he didn't have dementia then!

Full disclosure: I was in a photo with GHWB in 1990. He did not squeeze my ass.

[Redbirds Fan]

Now the George HW Bush butt squeezing allegations are back to 1992. I hope he didn't have dementia then!

Full disclosure: I was in a photo with GHWB in 1990. He did not squeeze my ass.

I just don't know what to think anymore. I guess Geraldine Ferraro was fortunate he only "kicked a little *ss" at that debate.

Franken...the way I read it, he remembered it very differently, but decided that he should just let it go. The lady has said she accepts the apology and doesn't want him to step down. I think Franken was right to say there should be an ethics investigation. How much weight should the victim's acceptance of the apology carry, if any?

Should there be an ethics investigation of Trump because of the 17 allegations against him? His tweet about Franken just begs for one.

What about the rest of us? If someone claimed that one of us forced a kiss upon them eleven years ago, should we resign from our job?

[Redbirds Fan]

Now the George HW Bush butt squeezing allegations are back to 1992. I hope he didn't have dementia then!

Full disclosure: I was in a photo with GHWB in 1990. He did not squeeze my ass.

I just don't know what to think anymore. I guess Geraldine Ferraro was fortunate he only "kicked a little *ss" at that debate.

Franken...the way I read it, he remembered it very differently, but decided that he should just let it go. The lady has said she accepts the apology and doesn't want him to step down. I think Franken was right to say there should be an ethics investigation. How much weight should the victim's acceptance of the apology carry, if any?

Should there be an ethics investigation of Trump because of the 17 allegations against him? His tweet about Franken just begs for one.

What about the rest of us? If someone claimed that one of us forced a kiss upon them eleven years ago, should we resign from our job?

KS, you are the only person I know who has been photographed with both GHWBush and Collin McHugh.

[Sour Masher]

Sorry, SM, but this is just incorrect. There are some sub-cultures, particularly in the rural South, which permit older men to take girls in their young teens as brides, for the exact reasons you point out, as well as the fact that it leaves one less mouth to feed. But we aren't talking about Roy Moore looking for a wife. He was looking for someone to screw. Casual sexual encounters aren't part of the parents' plan.

I don't see how my claim differs from yours. I said not only are these sub-cultures wrong, but Moore wasn't even acting in good faith in accordance with their rules. He just wanted to engage sex acts with minors. What am I missing? Did you misread my sentence "in Moore’s case, it was clear he wasn’t seeking a wife" as me saying it was not clear? When reports indicate he was trying to get with several high school girls over a short period, it is pretty clear what he wanted from them, and it wasn't marriage.

[Gregg]

The Franken deal is not on same level as Moore of course, and I mean the photo, as Franken disputes the kiss. He was a comedian who thought he was making an goofball joke pic with someone who he misjudged as a entertainer peer having laughs at a USO tour. She was asleep wearing a flak jacket it appears, and Franken is maybe miming the honk honk and posing for the camera. He is now the clearest most outspoken voice of reason in congress, who dials in so well with questioning nonsense in session. To lose him over this makes zero sense, might as well blow up the last remaining vestiges of whats grounding our government from madness, as that is not the way. And Franken is calling for spotlight on his actions becuase he knows he is not some predator, but had a moment of poor judgement yucking it up for camera, at a time when any blind minute of the Jim Carey improv show of that era had more objectionable material.

Moore issued stubborn declaration of war against establishment in response to his 10 women speaking out against him, and his predatory ways. Franken on the other hand made as major an apology and ask for scrutiny as you could make, because they are opposite sides of the coin, and I do not mean D/R.

Nope one does not have anything to do with the other. Each must stand on their own.

It doesn't matter if Franken is a fine politician or not any more than Kevin Spacey is a fine actor.

Even if we could excuse the honk honk as a bad attempt on humor, the forced kiss is a problem. The victim wants some type of justice. Do we tell her you get no justice. Suck it up it was just a joke. Who decides what is a joke gone bad and crossing a line that requires some type of action?

If I am the judge in the Franken case I could easily state that the evidence in the picture especially the flak jacket is much more indicative of an ill advised joke than a sexual act taking advantage of someone sleeping. I would however have to side with the accuser on the forced kissing incident. It was premeditated and forced by someone who is in power at a job site. That is sexual harassment. What should the punishment be, I do not know.

[onejayhawk]

The problem is that he'll lose that moral high ground that's allowed him to grill Sessions so well. He'll be constantly 2nd guessed, laughed at behind his back, and not taken seriously for quite some time. He'll also wear the label of hypocrite, and that is NOT something that the Dems need right now.

I suspect that Franken is calling for his own investigation because he knows that it's the path of least resistance, no member of the Senate has been expelled since the late 1800's. So while he'll keep his seat if he wants, and maybe even win re-election for another term, I think that he's ceded that moral high ground at this point.

I think that Al is a good man, I've met him dozens of times, but he's been in show business and politics for 4 decades now, to think that there aren't more questionable incidents out there strains my credulity.

The party had no moral high ground to lose. Look at the track record from the 1992 campaign onward. Currently, look at its handling of the Menendez situation. there is a limit to the amout of double standard that can be tolerated.

J

[Gregg]

Well done Sarah well done.

Sarah Silverman addressed Louis C.K.’s sexual misconduct in the opening of this week’s episode of her Hulu series “I Love You, America.”

“This recent calling out of sexual assault has been a long time coming,” Silverman said. “It’s good. It’s like cutting out tumors: it’s messy, and it’s complicated, and it is going to hurt, but it’s necessary and we’ll all be healthier for it. And it sucks. And some of our heroes will be taken down and we will discover bad things about people we like, or in some cases, people we love.”

Silverman was clearly emotional as she spoke, appearing to fight back tears multiple times as she went on to describe her friend C.K.’s behavior.
Sarah Silverman, Louis C.K. posing for the camera
© Provided by Variety

“One of my best friends of over 25 years, Louis C.K., masturbated in front of women,” she continued. “He wielded his power with women in -—ed up ways, sometimes to the point where they left comedy entirely. I could couch this with heartwarming stories of our friendship and what a great dad he is, but that’s totally irrelevant, isn’t it? Yes, it is. It’s a real mindf—, because I love Louis. But Louis did these things. Both of those statements are true. So I just keep asking myself, ‘Can you love someone who did bad things? Can you still love them?’ I can mull that over later certainly, because the only people that matter right now are the victims. They are victims and they are victims because of something he did. So I hope it’s OK that I am, at once, very angry for the women he wronged and the culture that enabled it, and also sad, because he’s my friend. But I believe with all my heart that this moment in time is essential. It’s vital that people are held accountable for their actions, no matter who they are. We need to be better. We will be better. I can’t -—ing wait to be better.” from MSN/Variety

[gcstomp]

Selective outrage re: Franken who IMO did something silly in the photo, that is a posed pic, woman wearing flak jacket, she was a fellow entertainer on a USO tour practicing a skit. Franken was mime-ing a honk, you can see shadow under hands meaning this is a practiced posed bit. Franken took full responsibility, issued crazy deep apology and call for scrutiny into his entire life predating political career. Victim, a conservative talk pundit btw, issued a statement saying she accepts apology.

Contrast this to president who selectively tweets outrage on Franken, but silent on Moore, who with 10 women on record saying he is a predatory creep who trolled mall for teenage girls as a thirty-something year old DA, with one of the victims being 14, this is to me 1000 times deeper than Franken, but Moore will be elected into office as we are in crazy lala land here.

Trump is a serial sexual assailant who had a bakers dozen of women claiming assault doing similar to what he was caught bragging about caught on tape, the grabbing by the... but has not had to answer for anything no matter how vulgar he has ever said or done. Issued a statement that everyone is lying, he will sue everyone (which there is no indication he did) and simply moved on without having to answer for anything.

People who used their position to try to get away with crap over people under them, I have issue with. Feels like we are going to have tons of "me too" stories come out, but lets keep a grip on grades of problem conduct here. Peers who misread signal for a kiss as opposed to people in authority who violated women in vulgar assault are different animals.

[Gregg]

Selective outrage re: Franken who IMO did something silly in the photo, that is a posed pic, woman wearing flak jacket, she was a fellow entertainer on a USO tour practicing a skit. Franken was mime-ing a honk, you can see shadow under hands meaning this is a practiced posed bit. Franken took full responsibility, issued crazy deep apology and call for scrutiny into his entire life predating political career. Victim, a conservative talk pundit btw, issued a statement saying she accepts apology.

Please read my post #129 about the Franken story. I would appreciate your thoughts on it.

[Fresno Bob]

Now the George HW Bush butt squeezing allegations are back to 1992. I hope he didn't have dementia then!

Full disclosure: I was in a photo with GHWB in 1990. He did not squeeze my ass.

reach around?

[fuhrdog]

reach around?

NTTAWWT