Official Sexual Harrassment Thread

[B-Fly]

I personally avoid some terms and phrases like this, because I know they carry so much baggage of misuse and abuse by others that me using them is going to pretty much shut down dialogue. This phrase clearly fits the bill, since echo said he stopped reading what I thought was a pretty reasonable, not crazy academic leftist, piece.

Yes, I regretted using the term in that other thread title as soon as I read [e]'s post and realized I had used a trigger word/phrase. My bad. I do hope we can get back to discussing these issues freely and openly and apologize for using language that derails thoughtful debate rather than sparking it.

[TranaGreg]

with all the apologizing going on here it's starting to sound like a forum full of canadians.

(Sorry, I hope I didn't offend anyone there)

And for what it's worth, I just got back from 2.5 weeks on vacation - I highly recommend getting away to reset & get some perspective (I don't mean from the Sports Bar, I mean physically away). And I find a huge difference between one week and two ... it's good for the soul.

[chancellor]

It is hard to argue against the idea, sticking with the term "toxic masculinity" that many of the biological and social aspects of male behavior, including are increased proclivity toward aggression and violence biologically, and repression of "softer" emotional responses culturally, are toxic tendencies, to society and to the individual, in 21st century society.

Oh, I'd have no problem arguing against this idea. But that'll take more time for a post than I have right now.

[Mithrandir]

Yes, but that is merely one interpretation of the term "toxic masculinity". I've also seen it used in many other interpretations, almost all of them totally bogus.

Let me be perfectly clear, however: violence against women isn't "toxic masculinity", it's criminal. Rape isn't "toxic masculinity", it's criminal. And while I'd not go to the extremes Fresno Bob elucidated, if I sat on a jury after he was caught doing exactly what he stated, I'd sure as hell not vote to convict.

If I understand you correctly, you are saying that if someone (FB in this case) violently exacted revenge on another person, then you wouldn't vote to convict?

I'm not sure if I agree or disagree with that. That's a tough one. One one hand I too would love to see those pieces of shit in our society get what FB would do to them, but we still have laws that must be followed or face consequences.

[Hornsby]

If I understand you correctly, you are saying that if someone (FB in this case) violently exacted revenge on another person, then you wouldn't vote to convict?

I'm not sure if I agree or disagree with that. That's a tough one. One one hand I too would love to see those pieces of shit in our society get what FB would do to them, but we still have laws that must be followed or face consequences.

Vigilante justice works great in comic books and movies, not so well in real life. I've seen the system at work for a long time now...and it DOES work. You may not like the outcome sometimes, but it's generally the right one...once jurors get into that room, they tend to take their responsibilities very seriously.

[cardboardbox]

Vigilante justice works great in comic books and movies, not so well in real life. I've seen the system at work for a long time now...and it DOES work. You may not like the outcome sometimes, but it's generally the right one...once jurors get into that room, they tend to take their responsibilities very seriously.

I feel sick, I agree with you.

Was going to post pretty much the same thing last night but got distracted by life.

[Sour Masher]

Oh, I'd have no problem arguing against this idea. But that'll take more time for a post than I have right now.

I should clarify, in anticipation of your response, that I'm not suggesting that aggression is always a bad thing. In fact, I think in many areas, it is a good thing, if properly harnessed. I also don't want to suggest that our culture should cultivate a bunch of "snow flakes" of either gender. I know I am getting old, because I'm increasingly finding myself thinking "these kids today don't know how good they have it." I deal with entitled students on the daily. I'm just arguing that some behaviors that have served our species well historically, need to be reined in and redirected in many contexts in contemporaneity society--at least until the zombie Apocalypse happens.

Getting back to the article and context for the use of the term toxic masculinity, it is supremely ironic to me that these "betas" as you call them, are such tough guy trolls on the internet. In a time and place where real male aggressiveness and toughness were essential to survival, they'd all be dead. If they said any of the crap they said in front of a "real man" in the real world, they'd get their whiny asses kicked. I forget who said it, but whoever did was right--there is nothing about today's society that is causing these guys to not get laid. Unless they were born into wealth and power, these sorts of guys would never have gotten laid, so them blaming feminist-culture is absurd. All that is happening now is more and more women feel comfortable calling the rapists and wanna-be rapists out for their behavior. They are able to get their own jobs, so they don't have to couple with these guys as their only recourse to surviving.

[Gregg]

Vigilante justice works great in comic books and movies, not so well in real life. I've seen the system at work for a long time now...and it DOES work. You may not like the outcome sometimes, but it's generally the right one...once jurors get into that room, they tend to take their responsibilities very seriously.

Good post.

It is one thing to imagine vengeance killing it is quite a different thing to carry it out.

Years ago we had a pretty good discussion on capital punishment. Most were against it. If I remember correctly; thought it to be vengeance killing.

[Bernie Brewer]

I should clarify, in anticipation of your response, that I'm not suggesting that aggression is always a bad thing. In fact, I think in many areas, it is a good thing, if properly harnessed. I also don't want to suggest that our culture should cultivate a bunch of "snow flakes" of either gender. I know I am getting old, because I'm increasingly finding myself thinking "these kids today don't know how good they have it." I deal with entitled students on the daily. I'm just arguing that some behaviors that have served our species well historically, need to be reined in and redirected in many contexts in contemporaneity society-at least until the zombie Apocalypse happens.

Getting back to the article and context for the use of the term toxic masculinity, it is supremely ironic to me that these "betas" as you call them, are such tough guy trolls on the internet. In a time and place where real male aggressiveness and toughness were essential to survival, they'd all be dead. If they said any of the crap they said in front of a "real man" in the real world, they'd get their whiny asses kicked. I forget who said it, but whoever did was right--there is nothing about today's society that is causing these guys to not get laid. Unless they were born into wealth and power, these sorts of guys would never have gotten laid, so them blaming feminist-culture is absurd. All that is happening now is more and more women feel comfortable calling the rapists and wanna-be rapists out for their behavior. They are able to get their own jobs, so they don't have to couple with these guys as their only recourse to surviving.

Oh, it’s happening. I’ve never been more certain of anything. Now, where is the “off topic” emoji? Found it. I’ll do better on staying focused. I promise.

[Fresno Bob]

Good post.

It is one thing to imagine vengeance killing it is quite a different thing to carry it out.

Years ago we had a pretty good discussion on capital punishment. Most were against it. If I remember correctly; thought it to be vengeance killing.

I'm pro-vengence killing, but i know I'm a mutant

[nullnor]

Bring Out the Gimp!

[Sour Masher]

Dammit, Morgan Freeman is the latest.

[Teenwolf]

Dammit, Morgan Freeman is the latest.

"Have you ever heard the voice of God when you orgasm? Would you like to?"

A couple of days ago it was announced that Vancouver BC had paid Morgan Freeman to do all the public transit announcements. Certainly a lot creepier now! "Next stop, Broadway.... LADIES!"

[Sour Masher]

"Have you ever heard the voice of God when you orgasm? Would you like to?"

A couple of days ago it was announced that Vancouver BC had paid Morgan Freeman to do all the public transit announcements. Certainly a lot creepier now! "Next stop, Broadway.... LADIES!"

No worries about such awkwardness now: Freeman will no longer be the voice of VPT.

[Sour Masher]

Chris Hardwick is the latest accused. His ex's account is on medium. It paints a picture if a complete selfish asshole that an older wiser her would have rightly left long before. But I'm a little unclear on the labeling his actions as sexual assault. Her account describes emotional coercion and her acceptance. She labels it's three years of sexual assault, because she only agreed to sex because she was afraid he'd leave her. Does that count now? IDK.

She certainly paints him as a total douche, but is emotional coercion followed by verbal consent sexual assault? It seemed to be more a post about a bad relationship with a shallow jerk, not an account of habitual sexual assault. Is the "I might leave you if I don't get enough sex" coercion counted as sexual assault coercion? If it is not, is an accusation that he was a douchy boyfriend enough to totally tanking his career? That sure gives a lot of power to exes of famous people. By her own admission, she cheated on him and he blacklisted her. She insists he forgave the cheating, and just blacklisted her out of spite. But it does seem like the post was as much as response of his blacklisting her as the relationship itself.

I did learn a new term from her article. Apparently laying back too tired to engage but allowing the other person to get on top and do all the work during sex is called "starfishing".