Las Vegas Massacre

[TranaGreg]

If I had known that there was an outdoor concert going on that night, honestly I have little doubt that I would have been over there, at least to check out what was going on from afar. It is very fortunate that I did not even know that concert was going on.

Here's my account. ...

Ken, thanks for sharing. That sure is a crazy night. One thing that really jumps out (and I've seen this in other situations), is how much wrong information gets spread in the first few minutes & hours of an extreme crisis such as that. Just trying to get your bearings & figure out where is safe vs where isn't safe can be virtually impossible. That's why whenever someone says something like "why didn't they ... ", well, because nobody knew what the hell was going on. I heard an interview with a bartender at the event who said that it wasn't until the very end that they realized that the shooter (or shooters, they couldn't tell) wasn't in the crowd but was in one of the buildings.

Hope you can get back to some semblance of normality.

[Mithrandir]

Crazy conspiracy guy at my library says the whole Vegas shooting was faked and no one died! he has all this "proof" from "real" websites.

I showed him Ken's write-up that he posted on this thread and Crazy conspiracy guy said that Ken must be a government plant. Becasue NOTHING HAPPENED!!

[swampdragon]

when the government comes to subjugate you, you need as much fire-power as you can get to rise up for the constitution, democracy and the American way!

and they use my ezpass at tolls to track me too

[Redbirds Fan]

Ken,

Thanks for taking so much of your time to share that with us. It was an emotional experience just reading it, especially because it was you and Brad and Byron.

You provided a lot of insight on how crazy things can get in real time at the scene of an event like this. It helped explain a lot.

I know your family must have been terrified for you.

[Ken]

Ken, thanks for sharing. That sure is a crazy night. One thing that really jumps out (and I've seen this in other situations), is how much wrong information gets spread in the first few minutes & hours of an extreme crisis such as that. Just trying to get your bearings & figure out where is safe vs where isn't safe can be virtually impossible. That's why whenever someone says something like "why didn't they ... ", well, because nobody knew what the hell was going on. I heard an interview with a bartender at the event who said that it wasn't until the very end that they realized that the shooter (or shooters, they couldn't tell) wasn't in the crowd but was in one of the buildings.

Hope you can get back to some semblance of normality.

Thanks.

And I agree with you completely on the wrong information. It would be one thing if it was just one area that had a false report, but I believe 4 different hotels had reports of active shooter inside. You don't have time to question information in those scenarios, you just react to the information provided.

Heck, I contributed to it. When I was the first one out the back door sprinting out to the taxi area I got some confusing looks and I yelled "someone said there's a shooter with a shotgun in the casino". Which, it turns out, was true (that someone said it), but predicated on wrong information.

I'm sure it started with someone running from the concert yelling shooter, and then they get to the first group of people, and they don't know that the shooter is just shooting at the concert, they assume he's shooting at them so they start running. And then a block away the same thing repeats with a new group. Then it travels inside when one of them thinks it would be safer inside and in each hotel someone yells "shooter" and everyone assumes that since they are running they are being chased by a shooter and the false information just travels until everyone in the immediate area has found a spot that they think is safe enough to hide such that they are no longer spreading it.

[Mithrandir]

Thanks.

And I agree with you completely on the wrong information. It would be one thing if it was just one area that had a false report, but I believe 4 different hotels had reports of active shooter inside. You don't have time to question information in those scenarios, you just react to the information provided.

Heck, I contributed to it. When I was the first one out the back door sprinting out to the taxi area I got some confusing looks and I yelled "someone said there's a shooter with a shotgun in the casino". Which, it turns out, was true (that someone said it), but predicated on wrong information.

I'm sure it started with someone running from the concert yelling shooter, and then they get to the first group of people, and they don't know that the shooter is just shooting at the concert, they assume he's shooting at them so they start running. And then a block away the same thing repeats with a new group. Then it travels inside when one of them thinks it would be safer inside and in each hotel someone yells "shooter" and everyone assumes that since they are running they are being chased by a shooter and the false information just travels until everyone in the immediate area has found a spot that they think is safe enough to hide such that they are no longer spreading it.

So are you a government plant?

[Ken]

So are you a government plant?

Haha, maybe I should be - how well does it pay?

[TranaGreg]

So are you a government plant?

I'm always amused that those who are most likely to think of government as wasteful & inefficient, are also the ones most likely to think that government is so good that they could organize massive cover-ups with no leaks.

I work in government & have met with many many people across various levels & other jurisdictions; trust me, we're not that good.

[baldgriff]

I'm always amused that those who are most likely to think of government as wasteful & inefficient, are also the ones most likely to think that government is so good that they could organize massive cover-ups with no leaks.

I work in government & have met with many many people across various levels & other jurisdictions; trust me, we're not that good.

Thats what your supposed to tell us..........

[cardboardbox]

I'm always amused that those who are most likely to think of government as wasteful & inefficient, are also the ones most likely to think that government is so good that they could organize massive cover-ups with no leaks.

no, its definitely the former.

[heyelander]

But you are right...that thinking is probably one of the main reasons there is a market for and advocacy for these things.

here you go...

[Hornsby]

here you go...

Holy Fuck...I think that copy that was written for the ad scares me more than seeing that AR going fully auto.

[cardboardbox]

If the shooter had been captured alive, would those of you who are against the death penalty make an exception for him?

[Sour Masher]

If the shooter had been captured alive, would those of you who are against the death penalty make an exception for him?

I'm only against the death penalty, because it is imperfectly and unfairly applied. 1. A highly disturbing number of people who may not have been guilty have been put to death, and 2. Someone is much more likely to be put the death for committing the same crime as those who are not put to death if they are non-white, and/or not rich. Those two things are unconscionable to me. A third, lesser reason I am against is how inefficient a system it is, costing many times more than life-time incarceration.

Those statistically undeniable reasons aside, I have no moral qualms about the state acting as executioner in extreme cases of morally reprehensible behavior, especially when that behavior is habitual and/or without significant and provable mitigating factors. So yeah, if we could somehow live in a world where the rich and privileged didn't literally get away with murder, while poor people and minorities are put down for crimes they may or may not have committed, in cases where the crime is undeniably proven beyond all doubt, and of a truly heinous nature, I have no problem with such people paying the ultimate price for their crime. Just don't give into the disturbing bloodlust some folks engage in when they fantasize of all the sordid ways they'd torture and kill the child rapists, mass murders etc. Just put them down clinically and humanely, like diseased animals, which is what they are.

And to be clear, this guy clearly fit that bill. He was a broken creature--clearly a sociopath with no regard for the sanctity of life and no cares about the pain and suffering he inflicted on his victims. If he had survived this event, I do not see the benefit of studying him and his motives long term sufficient to keep him alive. After he was interviewed and analyzed, he and those like him should be put down and autopsied for further insights.

[TranaGreg]

I'm only against the death penalty, because it is imperfectly and unfairly applied. 1. A highly disturbing number of people who may not have been guilty have been put to death, and 2. Someone is much more likely to be put the death for committing the same crime as those who are not put to death if they are non-white, and/or not rich. Those two things are unconscionable to me. A third, lesser reason I am against is how inefficient a system it is, costing many times more than life-time incarceration.

Those statistically undeniable reasons aside, I have no moral qualms about the state acting as executioner in extreme cases of morally reprehensible behavior, especially when that behavior is habitual and/or without significant and provable mitigating factors. So yeah, if we could somehow live in a world where the rich and privileged didn't literally get away with murder, while poor people and minorities are put down for crimes they may or may not have committed, in cases where the crime is undeniably proven beyond all doubt, and of a truly heinous nature, I have no problem with such people paying the ultimate price for their crime. Just don't give into the disturbing bloodlust some folks engage in when they fantasize of all the sordid ways they'd torture and kill the child rapists, mass murders etc. Just put them down clinically and humanely, like diseased animals, which is what they are.

And to be clear, this guy clearly fit that bill. He was a broken creature--clearly a sociopath with no regard for the sanctity of life and no cares about the pain and suffering he inflicted on his victims. If he had survived this event, I do not see the benefit of studying him and his motives long term sufficient to keep him alive. After he was interviewed and analyzed, he and those like him should be put down and autopsied for further insights.

well said.