Baja Arizona, 51st State?

[onejayhawk]

So your position is that there should be Americans who are taxed without representation? Seems a complete contradiction of your stated views of these many years, eh?

Is that what Jefferson said? I would like to see the cite on that.

J

[chancellor]

Just like DC

No, Puerto Rico and DC are completely different.

DC statehood has been proposed in Congress every year since sometime in Reagan's first term. I can't remember exactly when, but I know that happened sometime early in Obey's time in the House. And unless my memory fails, it's been killed by many more Dem-controlled Congresses than GOP ones. However, DC may arguably need a Constitutional amendment for qualifying for statehood.

PR has a much easier path to statehood, and has had multiple well-run, clean votes on the island. My read of them is those on the island favor one of two courses - status quo as a Commonwealth or independence.

[Piney Boy]

Anyone catch this one yesterday? North Dakota not a legal state

So we were lied to in school.

[Bob Kohm]

No, Puerto Rico and DC are completely different.

Completely different? Well, no, not at all, Chance. There are differences between the two, but there is one overriding similarity that all others pale in comparison to-- taxation without representation. DC statehood is an impossible dream as long as there are enough Republicans in the Senate to filibuster the question as I'm sure you will freely admit-- the GOP will never allow DC to have two undoubtedly Democratic Senators even if it means ignoring the fact that DC residents are taxed just like every other US resident but receive absolutely no voting representation in Congress, giving lie to most of the GOP's rhetoric about fairness in governance. Even adding a single House Member with voting privileges has proven beyond the capacity for honesty in the GOP, and that even when that vote would be effectively nullified by giving Utah an extra House seat to counterbalance it. Let's talk for a minute about the BS the GOP spews about small government and the Federal Government keeping its hands out of local governance while we're at it. The Congress has done some pretty disgusting things in terms of interfering with DC's ability to govern itself even on the municipal level when it has suited the GOP-- the Congress effectively destroyed DC's right to pass its own gun laws when the NRA made an issue of it to their bought and paid for GOP Reps with DC having no voice as it had to voting Rep. The Congress has done everything it can to screw DC residents who wish to have an abortion. The Congress has even tried to mandate prayer in DC public schools. If you have an ounce of ideological purity, Chance, you have no choice but to admit that this is ludicrous, the Federal Government essentially passing laws targeted at one city and one city only that in any other city would be issues of municipal ordnance.

Keeping DC residents without a vote in a city that the GOP considers a plaything for their social policies and that has a hugely depleted tax base due to all of the Federal facilities in the city that pay nothing like what businesses pay for city services is a crime that should make any American, regardless of their political beliefs, cringe in shame.

[dslaw]

even when that vote would be effectively nullified by giving Utah an extra House seat

When this was last proposed (in 2008?) initially people here liked it because we would have a 4th seat. Then the politicians, who are all Republicans, started saying it was a bad idea since UT would get a 4th seat with the 2010 census anyway. It was funny to watch some of the guys squirm their way around any question about DC still having no representation with things like "it is part of a bigger issue". It was simply a case of the top Republicans saying "no" to a democrat getting a seat from DC vs. UT getting a seat in 2010 and possibly taking away a democrat seat in another state. I grew up near DC and even in high school I was taught taxation without representation was a cause for the revolution but that is exactly what we have created in DC.

[Mithrandir]

Completely different? Well, no, not at all, Chance. There are differences between the two, but there is one overriding similarity that all others pale in comparison to-- taxation without representation. DC statehood is an impossible dream as long as there are enough Republicans in the Senate to filibuster the question as I'm sure you will freely admit-- the GOP will never allow DC to have two undoubtedly Democratic Senators even if it means ignoring the fact that DC residents are taxed just like every other US resident but receive absolutely no voting representation in Congress, giving lie to most of the GOP's rhetoric about fairness in governance. Even adding a single House Member with voting privileges has proven beyond the capacity for honesty in the GOP, and that even when that vote would be effectively nullified by giving Utah an extra House seat to counterbalance it. Let's talk for a minute about the BS the GOP spews about small government and the Federal Government keeping its hands out of local governance while we're at it. The Congress has done some pretty disgusting things in terms of interfering with DC's ability to govern itself even on the municipal level when it has suited the GOP-- the Congress effectively destroyed DC's right to pass its own gun laws when the NRA made an issue of it to their bought and paid for GOP Reps with DC having no voice as it had to voting Rep. The Congress has done everything it can to screw DC residents who wish to have an abortion. The Congress has even tried to mandate prayer in DC public schools. If you have an ounce of ideological purity, Chance, you have no choice but to admit that this is ludicrous, the Federal Government essentially passing laws targeted at one city and one city only that in any other city would be issues of municipal ordnance.

Keeping DC residents without a vote in a city that the GOP considers a plaything for their social policies and that has a hugely depleted tax base due to all of the Federal facilities in the city that pay nothing like what businesses pay for city services is a crime that should make any American, regardless of their political beliefs, cringe in shame.

Then do something about it. If the situation in DC is as bad as you say, then get something done.

[chancellor]

Completely different? Well, no, not at all, Chance. There are differences between the two, but there is one overriding similarity that all others pale in comparison to-- taxation without representation.

Nope. PR could have representation in very short order; they simply have limited interest in doing so. Their population is pretty much split between two goals - status quo or independence. I'm not saying there's no one in PR who wants statehood, but it's a small minority by comparison.

DC statehood is an impossible dream as long as there are enough Republicans in the Senate to filibuster the question as I'm sure you will freely admit-- the GOP will never allow DC to have two undoubtedly Democratic Senators even if it means ignoring the fact that DC residents are taxed just like every other US resident but receive absolutely no voting representation in Congress, giving lie to most of the GOP's rhetoric about fairness in governance.

LOL...I love your colorful rhetoric, especially when it ignores obvious history. Let's review the bidding here...DC statehood has come up first in the House for what, going on 27, 28 years straight now? And has never even remotely been close to passing the House? And how many of those years were under GOP control? About a third of them?

The Congress has done some pretty disgusting things in terms of interfering with DC's ability to govern itself even on the municipal level when it has suited the GOP-- the Congress effectively destroyed DC's right to pass its own gun laws when the NRA made an issue of it to their bought and paid for GOP Reps with DC having no voice as it had to voting Rep.

LOL...more colorful interpretation of history here. Lessee...who was the opponent to that Heller guy in the big gun control case recently? Oh, yeah, the District of Columbia. And who lost? Oh, yeah, the District of Columbia.

If you have an ounce of ideological purity, Chance, you have no choice but to admit that this is ludicrous, the Federal Government essentially passing laws targeted at one city and one city only that in any other city would be issues of municipal ordnance.

Oh, you mean like Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution?

[Bob Kohm]

LOL...I love your colorful rhetoric, especially when it ignores obvious history. Let's review the bidding here...DC statehood has come up first in the House for what, going on 27, 28 years straight now? And has never even remotely been close to passing the House? And how many of those years were under GOP control? About a third of them?

Oh please. How many of those years saw the GOP in control of the White House or a nullifying caucus in the Senate? "Colorful"? You mean as in contrast to your play at trying to take an issue with a thousand shades and make it black and white, lol?

Oh, you mean like Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution?

Please. The GOP Congress has no interest in actually governing the District-- it does almost nothing to promote education, job creation outside of the Federal Bureaucracy, provide services, etc. It does, however, love to overturn gun laws, complicate abortion, trash and thrash the DC public education system, etc. for ****s and giggles. I wonder just how in love with that kind of mentality they'd be if DC wasn't a minority majority city that almost never elects a Republican? People here aren't stupid, Chance-- they know that there's a difference between how things are written and how they are enacted by the government.

[OaklandA's]

PR has a much easier path to statehood, and has had multiple well-run, clean votes on the island. My read of them is those on the island favor one of two courses - status quo as a Commonwealth or independence.

In a poll conducted by the Puerto Rican newspaper El Nuevo Dia in March 2011, 43% voted for statehood, 39% for commonwealth status, and 7% for an independent republic.

http://www.elnuevodia.com/alfrentela...ad-926088.html (In Spanish)

[onejayhawk]

Completely different? Well, no, not at all, Chance. There are differences between the two, but there is one overriding similarity that all others pale in comparison to-- taxation without representation. DC statehood is an impossible dream as long as there are enough Republicans in the Senate to filibuster the question as I'm sure you will freely admit-- the GOP will never allow DC to have two undoubtedly Democratic Senators even if it means ignoring the fact that DC residents are taxed just like every other US resident but receive absolutely no voting representation in Congress, giving lie to most of the GOP's rhetoric about fairness in governance. Even adding a single House Member with voting privileges has proven beyond the capacity for honesty in the GOP, and that even when that vote would be effectively nullified by giving Utah an extra House seat to counterbalance it. Let's talk for a minute about the BS the GOP spews about small government and the Federal Government keeping its hands out of local governance while we're at it. The Congress has done some pretty disgusting things in terms of interfering with DC's ability to govern itself even on the municipal level when it has suited the GOP-- the Congress effectively destroyed DC's right to pass its own gun laws when the NRA made an issue of it to their bought and paid for GOP Reps with DC having no voice as it had to voting Rep. The Congress has done everything it can to screw DC residents who wish to have an abortion. The Congress has even tried to mandate prayer in DC public schools. If you have an ounce of ideological purity, Chance, you have no choice but to admit that this is ludicrous, the Federal Government essentially passing laws targeted at one city and one city only that in any other city would be issues of municipal ordnance.

Keeping DC residents without a vote in a city that the GOP considers a plaything for their social policies and that has a hugely depleted tax base due to all of the Federal facilities in the city that pay nothing like what businesses pay for city services is a crime that should make any American, regardless of their political beliefs, cringe in shame.

This is the second time you have made this statement. Since DC is administered directly by Congress, the comment seems out of left field. Please expand.

Puerto Rrico has already expressed the view, forcefully and repeatedly, that they like the way things are. So any claim that theyare not represented is mistaken on its face.

J

[onejayhawk]

Oh please. How many of those years saw the GOP in control of the White House or a nullifying caucus in the Senate? "Colorful"? You mean as in contrast to your play at trying to take an issue with a thousand shades and make it black and white, lol?



Please. The GOP Congress has no interest in actually governing the District-- it does almost nothing to promote education, job creation outside of the Federal Bureaucracy, provide services, etc. It does, however, love to overturn gun laws, complicate abortion, trash and thrash the DC public education system, etc. for ****s and giggles. I wonder just how in love with that kind of mentality they'd be if DC wasn't a minority majority city that almost never elects a Republican? People here aren't stupid, Chance-- they know that there's a difference between how things are written and how they are enacted by the government.

You are getting hammered here BK. I hope you understand that.

J

[Bob Kohm]

You are getting hammered here BK. I hope you understand that.

J

LOL, just keep whistlin' past the graveyard, Jay

The fact is that the people of DC have no voice at all in Congress as they have no vote, yet pay Federal taxes. Maybe if they dump some tea in the Potomac (or some Tea Party idiots ) that point will finally register with you, lol. Probably not, though, as it would mean another black face in Congress voting against the GOPs various social nightmares.

[onejayhawk]

LOL, just keep whistlin' past the graveyard, Jay

The fact is that the people of DC have no voice at all in Congress as they have no vote, yet pay Federal taxes. Maybe if they dump some tea in the Potomac (or some Tea Party idiots ) that point will finally register with you, lol. Probably not, though, as it would mean another black face in Congress voting against the GOPs various social nightmares.

No voice in Congress. That is prime cut.

They have an entire House of Congress specificallly tasked to look out for them. Did you overlook that detail?

J

[chancellor]

In a poll conducted by the Puerto Rican newspaper El Nuevo Dia in March 2011, 43% voted for statehood, 39% for commonwealth status, and 7% for an independent republic.

http://www.elnuevodia.com/alfrentela...ad-926088.html (In Spanish)

Which is inverted from the last two actual votes with ballots on commonwealth status in PR. It's possible that's changed, as the last real vote was taken in '93. We'll know better in 2012, as the Obama administration has pushed to get this on the ballot again, something I favor.

[chancellor]

Oh please. How many of those years saw the GOP in control of the White House or a nullifying caucus in the Senate? "Colorful"? You mean as in contrast to your play at trying to take an issue with a thousand shades and make it black and white, lol?

Hey, you're the one making this black & white with your typical "it's all the GOP's fault...waaaahhhh" routine. Fact is, despite hundreds of bills that have passed a Dem House and gone to the Senate, this one never has. Dozens of fully Dem Houses have had opportunities over a range of 25+ years, and have never even been able to muster a vote to send this to the Senate. It's patently obvious that if this were really any kind of priority for the Dems that they'd have muster the votes one time for DC statehood, even if it would possibly die in the Senate.

Please. The GOP Congress has no interest in actually governing the District-- it does almost nothing to promote education, job creation outside of the Federal Bureaucracy, provide services, etc. It does, however, love to overturn gun laws, complicate abortion, trash and thrash the DC public education system, etc. for ****s and giggles. I wonder just how in love with that kind of mentality they'd be if DC wasn't a minority majority city that almost never elects a Republican? People here aren't stupid, Chance-- they know that there's a difference between how things are written and how they are enacted by the government.

The GOP has no interest in actually governing the district? Really? Under whose oversight did DC go to hell under Marion Berry's tenure from '78 to '90? And under whose oversight did DC finally get an opportunity to fix their finances via the DCFCP in '95?

It's pretty darn funny you can even remotely blame the GOP for any of DC's problems while the Democratic Congress stood by and did almost nothing while MB destroyed what what left of the city in the late '70s and 80s. It certainly wasn't under a GOP Congress that DC became the murder capital of the US. Or one of the highest violent crime cities in the US. Or fiscally shattered.