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Pick a President - 5 Things

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  • Pick a President - 5 Things

    In reading the Trump thread, a thought occurs to me. I wonder when we take partisan sides (even though we claim we're not) if we are truly able to objectively recognize that each President brings different values and approaches to the job. Some for better, and, undoubtedly, some for worse. Each approach is unique; one may offend and another may appease our senses of morality and decency. Nothing is ever as good or as bad as it seems in the moment. For instance, Obama was not the apologist, weak on foreign policy, socialist the right often tries to makes him out to have been. Bush wasn't the war mongering, unintelligent, financial crisis creator that the left often makes him out to have been. I wonder if we can list 5 positive qualities and/or contributions about one of the guys we did not vote for or support the most, because each has had an impact on the world.

    I'll start. While I was no fan of Obama's policies, I can admit that he was good and moral man.

    1. He was handed a big steaming bag of crap of an economy when he took office. Mere mortals would've folded like a lawn chair at the weight of the crisis. For a guy with purportedly limited managerial experience, he successfully navigated the country and world back from the edge of Financial collapse. I didn't agree with every measure, but in general terms, that's worth a lasting positive legacy alone.

    2. Easy one, first minority president. While I thought his timing was at times poor when intervening in racial issues such as Travon Martin, Ferguson Missouri, the Harvard professor beer fest, I believe in his heart he felt that he had an obligation to advance the conversation on the state of race relations in this country. I think he did it as well as anyone could have ever asked.

    3. He is in extremely elegant and eloquent speaker. He had a way of dumbing things down without making the listener feel he was dumbing it down. More often than not, he was extremely thoughtful and measured and every word matter. He wasn't speaking to be a Sunday preacher and he wasn't doing it as a show. It was heartfelt and convicted.

    4. He stood tall and confident when he was continually assailed with ridiculous questions and undaunting personal attacks about his country of birth, his birth certificate, his religion, and any number of other conspiracies. He never got down in the muck and held his head high.

    5. His demeanor was consistent and stable which I am sure give comfort to other world leaders that he could be trusted to keep his word.

    Bonus: I always appreciated that he was a family man first. It was clear he loves his wife and his family and of all things they were the most important things to him.


    Your turn. Just so we're clear, even though I lean middle-right, I've never "hated" any of our Presidents. Hate is a very strong word that is used too loosely.
    Last edited by Bernie Brewer; 02-01-2017, 10:21 AM. Reason: Changed disliked to did not vote for or support.
    I know in my heart that man is good. That what is right will always eventually triumph and there is purpose and worth to each and every life.

    Ronald Reagan

  • #2
    Obama deserves a ton of credit for saving the American auto industry. I am at a loss why is isn't mentioned more, especially by his supporters. The failure of that industry would have sent shock waves thru many other industries. I submit that it's probably his greatest achievement during his time in office. Jobs kept here.
    2. As mentioned, great family man, which helped me like him even if I didn't like a lot of what he did (kind of like Bush 43 for me as well ironically).
    3. Largely scandal free administration. No matter how much the GOP hated him, they could never really find any substantive dirt on him or his team. I predict you won't be able to say that about the current Administration, nor likely, the next Democratic one either. It's a blindly partisan world we live in, but he and his team didn't get scandalized. Really tough to do in this climate.
    4. Your #4 is spot on. Nothing to add.
    5. Great speaker. Always able to listen to him (which was in contrast to Bush 43, who just didn't have that gift).

    Comment


    • #3
      Excellent game. I'll play when I get out of my 9:00 meeting.

      OKAY.

      My least liked President is Nixon, because....Nixon. But there are some very good things you can say about him. (I'm not getting into the bad stuff.)

      1. He went to China in 1972, a bold move which ultimately pressured the Soviets into détente. He had some good diplomatic moments elsewhere, including the middle east.

      2. Although he screwed up pretty badly in Vietnam, he did end the draft and eventually got the US troops out.

      3. He created the EPA, and was a motivating force behind the national War on Cancer. Also domestically, he actually tried to implement a program under which every family in America would be guaranteed an annual income...a little over $15,000 in today's money. This obviously didn't pass, but it shows some compassion. He also sought funding for drug rehab, drug education, interdiction, and sickle-cell research and treatment. Nixon favored lowering the voting age to 18, and signed a bill put before him, but he stated that he believed it required a constitutional amendment. He was right, of course, and a constitutional amendment was passed.

      4. Nixon was believed to be a closet racist. Nonetheless, he worked very hard to put and end to segregation in the public schools in the South. He traveled to the individual states and personally met with every governor to discuss the problem.

      5. He negotiated the first meaningful nuclear arms agreements with the Soviets.

      (6. And he was on Rowan & Martin's Laugh-In, where he engaged in self-deprecating humor.)
      Last edited by Redbirds Fan; 02-01-2017, 12:03 PM.
      If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. - Karl Popper

      Comment


      • #4
        8 years seems like such a long time ago, i can't even remember yesterday. but you know this is a talent conservatives have. they are good at history. so im gonna throw myself out here and try to keep up. and i could be wrong about a few things but i hope im not.

        1) GW did the TARP thing. most liberals like myself think Obama did it. but it was GW. i don't think his whole party was with him but he made the right call anyways.
        2) i think GW did what he thought was right. you know that's important.
        3) he also tried to stay above all the crap. i mean who can say in these new times whats going to happen. he didn't seem to contribute the the slant.
        4) he tried honestly, i think to do immigration reform.
        5) he didn't try to sabotage Obama, he didn't try to still be President or anything. and he had balls too. i don't think he tried to influence things after he left. so i hope we'll hear from him again.

        he cared. so no matter what, i hope someday he can help us garner some wisdom.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Bernie Brewer View Post
          In reading the Trump thread, a thought occurs to me. I wonder when we take partisan sides (even though we claim we're not) if we are truly able to objectively recognize that each President brings different values and approaches to the job. Some for better, and, undoubtedly, some for worse. Each approach is unique; one may offend and another may appease our senses of morality and decency. Nothing is ever as good or as bad as it seems in the moment. For instance, Obama was not the apologist, weak on foreign policy, socialist the right often tries to makes him out to have been. Bush wasn't the war mongering, unintelligent, financial crisis creator that the left often makes him out to have been. I wonder if we can list 5 positive qualities and/or contributions about one of the guys we did not vote for or support the most, because each has had an impact on the world.

          I'll start. While I was no fan of Obama's policies, I can admit that he was good and moral man.

          1. He was handed a big steaming bag of crap of an economy when he took office. Mere mortals would've folded like a lawn chair at the weight of the crisis. For a guy with purportedly limited managerial experience, he successfully navigated the country and world back from the edge of Financial collapse. I didn't agree with every measure, but in general terms, that's worth a lasting positive legacy alone.

          2. Easy one, first minority president. While I thought his timing was at times poor when intervening in racial issues such as Travon Martin, Ferguson Missouri, the Harvard professor beer fest, I believe in his heart he felt that he had an obligation to advance the conversation on the state of race relations in this country. I think he did it as well as anyone could have ever asked.

          3. He is in extremely elegant and eloquent speaker. He had a way of dumbing things down without making the listener feel he was dumbing it down. More often than not, he was extremely thoughtful and measured and every word matter. He wasn't speaking to be a Sunday preacher and he wasn't doing it as a show. It was heartfelt and convicted.

          4. He stood tall and confident when he was continually assailed with ridiculous questions and undaunting personal attacks about his country of birth, his birth certificate, his religion, and any number of other conspiracies. He never got down in the muck and held his head high.

          5. His demeanor was consistent and stable which I am sure give comfort to other world leaders that he could be trusted to keep his word.

          Bonus: I always appreciated that he was a family man first. It was clear he loves his wife and his family and of all things they were the most important things to him.


          Your turn. Just so we're clear, even though I lean middle-right, I've never "hated" any of our Presidents. Hate is a very strong word that is used too loosely.
          I think this is about as nice a tribute as one could pay to a President. If I were former President Obama, I would say "Yep, that is what I was going for".
          If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. - Karl Popper

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Redbirds Fan View Post
            Excellent game. I'll play when I get out of my 9:00 meeting.

            OKAY.

            My least liked President is Nixon, because....Nixon. But there are some very good things you can say about him. (I'm not getting into the bad stuff.)

            1. He went to China in 1972, a bold move which ultimately pressured the Soviets into détente. He had some good diplomatic moments elsewhere, including the middle east.

            2. Although he screwed up pretty badly in Vietnam, he did end the draft and eventually got the US troops out.

            3. He created the EPA, and was a motivating force behind the national War on Cancer. Also domestically, he actually tried to implement a program under which every family in America would be guaranteed an annual income...a little over $15,000 in today's money. This obviously didn't pass, but it shows some compassion. He also sought funding for drug rehab, drug education, interdiction, and sickle-cell research and treatment. Nixon favored lowering the voting age to 18, and signed a bill put before him, but he stated that he believed it required a constitutional amendment. He was right, of course, and a constitutional amendment was passed.

            4. Nixon was believed to be a closet racist. Nonetheless, he worked very hard to put and end to segregation in the public schools in the South. He traveled to the individual states and personally met with every governor to discuss the problem.

            5. He negotiated the first meaningful nuclear arms agreements with the Soviets.

            (6. And he was on Rowan & Martin's Laugh-In, where he engaged in self-deprecating humor.)
            Good list. I think Nixon is undervalued as a President but because he made a terrible group of decisions related to Watergate, he got what he deserved. Could never get past his own paranoia and dark side. In retrospect, the decision to break in Watergate was so stupid. There was no chance he wasn't going to beat McGovern anyhow.
            Last edited by nots; 02-01-2017, 01:15 PM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by nots View Post
              Good list. I think Nixon is undervalued as a President but because he made a terrible group of decisions related to Watergate, he got what he deserved. Could never get past his own paranoia and dark side. In retrospect, the decision to break in Watergate was so stupid. There was no chance he wasn't going to be McGovern anyhow.
              And the worst part about Watergate was that now everything is "Something Gate." It wasn't a scandal involving water - stop calling everything "gate," argh!

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by umjewman View Post
                And the worst part about Watergate was that now everything is "Something Gate." It wasn't a scandal involving water - stop calling everything "gate," argh!
                Just wait for the first scandal involving an actual gate. That'll put a stop to that.

                I love the Obama and Nixon lists. I'm trying to do a Dubya list in my head, and I'm having a really tough time. It's hard to ignore everything on the other side of the scale.
                "When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less."
                "The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things."
                "The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master - that's all."

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by senorsheep View Post
                  Just wait for the first scandal involving an actual gate. That'll put a stop to that.

                  I love the Obama and Nixon lists. I'm trying to do a Dubya list in my head, and I'm having a really tough time. It's hard to ignore everything on the other side of the scale.
                  Apparently, it happened in England already:

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Thanks guys. I think it's telling who has and hasn't posted in this thread. I hope more will give it a try.
                    I know in my heart that man is good. That what is right will always eventually triumph and there is purpose and worth to each and every life.

                    Ronald Reagan

                    Comment

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