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Section 8 housing vs. Development

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  • #1

    Section 8 housing vs. Development

    In my town there is a Section 8 housing Plan that was originally built with Federal money in the 1960's. It served it's purpose for years. But now out of the 10 buildings only 3-4 are used for housing and the other 5-6 are empty and pretty much shot. The Plan is in a very nice part of the town that developed around the housing plan, so very desirable real estate is taken up by this Section 8 housing manors.

    At a Town Hall meeting a few days ago someone mentioned tearing down the Section 8 buildings to make room for developing a housing plan that would have 8-10 homes in the $100K-200K range. Another person asked what would happen to those people currently living in the Section 8 buildings?

    What is your take on something like this? I think it is a no-brainer to get rid of the Section 8 and develop the property. Give the current residents ample time to find new living arrangements and start moving forward.
    "I lingered round them, under that benign sky: watched the moths fluttering among the heath and harebells, listened to the soft wind breathing through the grass, and wondered how any one could ever imagine unquiet slumbers for the sleepers in that quiet earth."
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  • #2
    Given your description, it would seem the answer would be to leave the three or four occupied buildings and to take down the five or six empty ones, rather than to displace three or four buildings worth of residents who presumably have few resources to "find new living arrangements and start moving forward".

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    • #3
      Originally posted by B-Fly View Post
      Given your description, it would seem the answer would be to leave the three or four occupied buildings and to take down the five or six empty ones, rather than to displace three or four buildings worth of residents who presumably have few resources to "find new living arrangements and start moving forward".
      So how would you develop an area that still has Section 8 housing around it? Who would build new housing there? Who would buy it?

      Let's face it, no one spending $150K for a new house is going to do that with Section 8 housing and residents in their backyard.
      "I lingered round them, under that benign sky: watched the moths fluttering among the heath and harebells, listened to the soft wind breathing through the grass, and wondered how any one could ever imagine unquiet slumbers for the sleepers in that quiet earth."

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Mithrandir View Post
        So how would you develop an area that still has Section 8 housing around it? Who would build new housing there? Who would buy it?

        Let's face it, no one spending $150K for a new house is going to do that with Section 8 housing and residents in their backyard.
        In the NYC metro area, the only way to get a house for $150,000 is to be in a "less desirable" neighborhood, so I guess it's all relative. Putting three or four buildings worth of low-income residents out of their existing homes, however, is never and should never be a "no brainer".

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        • #5
          Originally posted by B-Fly View Post
          In the NYC metro area, the only way to get a house for $150,000 is to be in a "less desirable" neighborhood, so I guess it's all relative. Putting three or four buildings worth of low-income residents out of their existing homes, however, is never and should never be a "no brainer".
          $150,000 is big time in this town. I agree that putting people out isn't easy, but where does the big picture come into play? Should a town forgo opportunity because of 100-125 people? I'm not saying throw them out in one month. Give them ample time to find other arrangements and the County, State services will help them.
          "I lingered round them, under that benign sky: watched the moths fluttering among the heath and harebells, listened to the soft wind breathing through the grass, and wondered how any one could ever imagine unquiet slumbers for the sleepers in that quiet earth."

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          • #6
            First I'd ask you're inferring that section 8 residents are "less desirable" and then ask, why do you say that.
            If I whisper my wicked marching orders into the ether with no regard to where or how they may bear fruit, I am blameless should a broken spirit carry those orders out upon the innocent, for it was not my hand that took the action merely my lips which let slip their darkest wish. ~Daniel Devereaux 2011

            Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
            Martin Luther King, Jr.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by GwynnInTheHall View Post
              First I'd ask you're inferring that section 8 residents are "less desirable" and then ask, why do you say that.
              Good question. I am talking only about THIS PARTICULAR Section 8 area, not Section 8 residents as a whole.

              The Section 8 housing area has been an area of high crime and less than model citizens for years. I was trying to be polite, but the fact is this area is a shit hole that residents don't take care of and don't seem to want to take care of. So if they can't or won't be a part of decent law abiding society, then why should the rest of the town care about them?
              "I lingered round them, under that benign sky: watched the moths fluttering among the heath and harebells, listened to the soft wind breathing through the grass, and wondered how any one could ever imagine unquiet slumbers for the sleepers in that quiet earth."

              Comment

              • #8
                Originally posted by Mithrandir View Post
                Good question. I am talking only about THIS PARTICULAR Section 8 area, not Section 8 residents as a whole.

                The Section 8 housing area has been an area of high crime and less than model citizens for years. I was trying to be polite, but the fact is this area is a shit hole that residents don't take care of and don't seem to want to take care of. So if they can't or won't be a part of decent law abiding society, then why should the rest of the town care about them?
                So how about this, redevelop and keep it section 8 and give these people something TO care about?

                You do realize quite a few people on section 8 are disabled or elderly and NOT just welfare recipients right?

                I'd wager there are quite a few less than law abiding folks in the nice areas too.
                If I whisper my wicked marching orders into the ether with no regard to where or how they may bear fruit, I am blameless should a broken spirit carry those orders out upon the innocent, for it was not my hand that took the action merely my lips which let slip their darkest wish. ~Daniel Devereaux 2011

                Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
                Martin Luther King, Jr.

                Comment

                • #9
                  Another perspective is that the town wants to reduce the amount of subsidised housing that it provides. If it's to make more money from the increase in property tax base that would result, I would want to know how it intends to address the needs of those dependent on the housing that is currently provided.

                  re: finding new living arrangements and start moving forward - what options exist for these people? If you (or the people making the decisions) can't answer that question, I think there's a problem.

                  edit: it's on a completely different scale, but we have a neighborhood in Toronto called Regent Park which has had similar problems ...

                  Regent Park was designed as a transitional community. It was to house people experiencing financial difficulties, or socioeconomic adjustment support. Most residents were on social assistance, and working residents paid rent proportional to their income. In the last two decades Regent Park has also become an immigrant community, as immigrants facing difficulties settling in Canada end up living there. Thus, the community is always viewed and administrated as a transitional community. This contributed to the concentration of a socially marginalized population, and various social ills of Regent Park. In particular, a transitional community failed to generate the awareness, interest, and commitment of its residents to invest in the development and sustainability of a higher quality of life.
                  There have been a lot of efforts over the past 10-15 years to change the perspective to treat neighborhoods as residential communities, not transitional. It's definitely a tough nut to crack but there are lots of success stories out there.
                  Last edited by TranaGreg; 07-14-2016, 03:23 PM.
                  It certainly feels that way. But I'm distrustful of that feeling and am curious about evidence.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Originally posted by GwynnInTheHall View Post
                    So how about this, redevelop and keep it section 8 and give these people something TO care about?

                    You do realize quite a few people on section 8 are disabled or elderly and NOT just welfare recipients right?

                    I'd wager there are quite a few less than law abiding folks in the nice areas too.
                    You do realize that i am talking about an area in the town that i have lived in for 50 years? I know the area. Very few Seniors or disabled.

                    I get that you are a nice guy and want to help people, but when does it stop? How many chances do people get? It was a decent area, but they turned it to shit, so you want to give them another chance?
                    "I lingered round them, under that benign sky: watched the moths fluttering among the heath and harebells, listened to the soft wind breathing through the grass, and wondered how any one could ever imagine unquiet slumbers for the sleepers in that quiet earth."

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Mithrandir View Post
                      You do realize that i am talking about an area in the town that i have lived in for 50 years? I know the area. Very few Seniors or disabled.

                      I get that you are a nice guy and want to help people, but when does it stop? How many chances do people get? It was a decent area, but they turned it to shit, so you want to give them another chance?

                      It's never stops.

                      Decades, centuries of inequity are hard to overcome, but it's a struggle we have to keep fighting.

                      Money and profit should never be more important than well being.

                      Ever.
                      If I whisper my wicked marching orders into the ether with no regard to where or how they may bear fruit, I am blameless should a broken spirit carry those orders out upon the innocent, for it was not my hand that took the action merely my lips which let slip their darkest wish. ~Daniel Devereaux 2011

                      Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
                      Martin Luther King, Jr.

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Mithrandir View Post
                        You do realize that i am talking about an area in the town that i have lived in for 50 years? I know the area. Very few Seniors or disabled.

                        I get that you are a nice guy and want to help people, but when does it stop? How many chances do people get? It was a decent area, but they turned it to shit, so you want to give them another chance?
                        Who is "they", Mith? You seem to be painting 100-125 people (your estimate) with a very broad brush.

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Originally posted by GwynnInTheHall View Post
                          It's never stops.

                          Decades, centuries of inequity are hard to overcome, but it's a struggle we have to keep fighting.

                          Money and profit should never be more important than well being.

                          Ever.
                          Guess i have to agree with your words, but in practice I feel differently when it affects me and the town I live in. Look I know that not everyone gets a fair deal with life and I've been pretty damn fortunate. But it's a losing battle with a lot of these people. Let them become another town's problem.

                          Seriously I'm so tired that my town gets labeled "dangerous" and people won't come to the town or purchase homes in the town because of the scumbags that inhabit the Section 8 areas in town.

                          I know you don't get it because you haven't seen what has happened to my town the last 30 years or so. But it needs to be cleaned up, and getting rid of the shit-hole areas is a solid start.
                          "I lingered round them, under that benign sky: watched the moths fluttering among the heath and harebells, listened to the soft wind breathing through the grass, and wondered how any one could ever imagine unquiet slumbers for the sleepers in that quiet earth."

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Originally posted by B-Fly View Post
                            Who is "they", Mith? You seem to be painting 100-125 people (your estimate) with a very broad brush.
                            "They" are the people with no jobs, on public assistance that have multiple kids who have no respect for others and engage in illicit criminal activities.

                            Not to be rude B, and I appreciate your responses. But I will assume that you live in a neighborhood that doesn't exactly have these kinds of folks living around you? Forgive me if I am wrong.

                            Just to comment on the income disparities in our respective towns. The median household income in Montclair is $95,000. The town I am referring to has a median household income of $26,000.
                            "I lingered round them, under that benign sky: watched the moths fluttering among the heath and harebells, listened to the soft wind breathing through the grass, and wondered how any one could ever imagine unquiet slumbers for the sleepers in that quiet earth."

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Mithrandir View Post
                              Guess i have to agree with your words, but in practice I feel differently when it affects me and the town I live in. Look I know that not everyone gets a fair deal with life and I've been pretty damn fortunate. But it's a losing battle with a lot of these people. Let them become another town's problem.

                              Seriously I'm so tired that my town gets labeled "dangerous" and people won't come to the town or purchase homes in the town because of the scumbags that inhabit the Section 8 areas in town.

                              I know you don't get it because you haven't seen what has happened to my town the last 30 years or so. But it needs to be cleaned up, and getting rid of the shit-hole areas is a solid start.

                              I'd be more angry at the elitist fucks who refuse to help solve the real problems and rather look to force others out so they can feel more comfortable because you know--if you don't see the problem, there is no problem
                              If I whisper my wicked marching orders into the ether with no regard to where or how they may bear fruit, I am blameless should a broken spirit carry those orders out upon the innocent, for it was not my hand that took the action merely my lips which let slip their darkest wish. ~Daniel Devereaux 2011

                              Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
                              Martin Luther King, Jr.

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