Originally posted by B-Fly
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"There is involved in this struggle the question whether your children and my children shall enjoy the privileges we have enjoyed. I say this in order to impress upon you, if you are not already so impressed, that no small matter should divert us from our great purpose. "
Abraham Lincoln, from his Address to the Ohio One Hundred Sixty Fourth Volunteer Infantry
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Originally posted by Bob Kohm View PostActually, I've just about ruled out the first possibility as being the catalyst for this, although it is the vehicle by which this is being delivered.
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Originally posted by eldiablo505Uh, what was my conclusion and in what manner is it antithetical to McCotter's?
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Originally posted by eldiablo505the obvious will of the people
Would this be any different from concluding that the Tea Party's agenda is the will of the American people?
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Originally posted by eldiablo505The similarities in news reports are striking, regardless of "slant" of the source --- the will of the Egyptian people is obviously to get Mumbarek out of office and change the administration.
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Originally posted by eldiablo505On a different note, are those of you that are overly concerned with Muslim Brotherhood influence equally concerned about the proposition that Mohamed ElBaradei, the guy the Brotherhood has endorsed, lead the transitional government, if there were to be one?
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Originally posted by eldiablo505Of course I don't desire Sharia law for the Egyptian people. I don't think that it's clear what the goals of the Brotherhood are at this point beyond acting as participants in the protests. I trust them just as much as I trust the Christian Coalition (or any similar whackjob religious group).
There are a lot of points to consider. First is that more than half of Egypt's population lives below the poverty line ($2 per day). Second, this is a 30 year US-sponsored dictatorship that is at the root of the Egyptian society's ills.
Third, there is still good evidence that the US is trying to maintain that dictatorship despite the obvious will of the people. Fourth, with all the uncertainty surrounding the future of Egypt, people are concerned that hard-liners may take power and change the political atmosphere in the region for the worse.
It doesn't seem like a "Brotherhood dominated Egypt" is anywhere near a certainty or really even a probability at this point. My ears aren't to the ground on the political landscape as well as yours, perhaps, but it seems like secular concerns echo those that we've had brought up here: namely, that a move to any sort of Sharia would be a lateral move at best and a signal for violence at worst. Yet it remains as a concern regarding both US relations and, much more importantly, peace in the region. I see no reason why the people of Egypt should not be trusted with the fate of Egypt. To think otherwise at this stage of the game reeks of ethnocentrism to me.Last edited by Bob Kohm; 02-01-2011, 03:46 PM."There is involved in this struggle the question whether your children and my children shall enjoy the privileges we have enjoyed. I say this in order to impress upon you, if you are not already so impressed, that no small matter should divert us from our great purpose. "
Abraham Lincoln, from his Address to the Ohio One Hundred Sixty Fourth Volunteer Infantry
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Dave Emery has always argued that the Muslim Brotherhood are patsies for the Martin Boorman-led Underground Reich
"You know what's wrong with America? If I lovingly tongue a woman's nipple in a movie, it gets an "NC-17" rating, if I chop it off with a machete, it's an "R". That's what's wrong with America, man...."--Dennis Hopper
"One should judge a man mainly from his depravities. Virtues can be faked. Depravities are real." -- Klaus Kinski
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Every person I met in Egypt hated Mubarak and, granted we were tourists, most of them were extremely friendly to us as Americans and only about a quarter had strong anti-American sentiments (that they shared with us respectfully). Obviously that's an extremely limited and biased sample but just sharing what I found while I was there.If DMT didn't exist we would have to invent it. There has to be a weirdest thing. Once we have the concept weird, there has to be a weirdest thing. And DMT is simply it.
- Terence McKenna
Bullshit is everywhere. - George Carlin (& Jon Stewart)
How old would you be if you didn't know how old you are? - Satchel Paige
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Originally posted by eldiablo505Things are getting even crazier since Mubarek's announcement that he's not going to seek reelection but will also not step down until September. Pro-Mubarek groups are clashing with opposition. Hundreds injured. Some pretty insane video on CNN right now showing just how many people are in the streets (a LOT).
So much for Egypt being a stop on my around-the-world trip. That was the country I most wanted to visit, too.
Getting closer to the subject--I'm with Bob on this one. As is typical in Middle Eastern situations, there are several scenarios which could play out here, none very good. Where I disagree is on the competence of their military; as several wars have proven, the Egyptian Army always has lots of new, shiny toys, but not necessarily the ability to use them well.
However, as bad as the idea of a military or military-backed coup or rigged election would be, a takeover by the Brotherhood or a Brotherhood-backed stooge would be worse.Only the madman is absolutely sure. -Robert Anton Wilson, novelist (1932-2007)
Faith is believing what you know ain't so. -Mark Twain, author and humorist (1835-1910)
A great many people think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices.
-- William James
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Originally posted by Don Quixote View PostF As is typical in Middle Eastern situations, there are several scenarios which could play out here, none very good. Where I disagree is on the competence of their military; as several wars have proven, the Egyptian Army always has lots of new, shiny toys, but not necessarily the ability to use them well."There is involved in this struggle the question whether your children and my children shall enjoy the privileges we have enjoyed. I say this in order to impress upon you, if you are not already so impressed, that no small matter should divert us from our great purpose. "
Abraham Lincoln, from his Address to the Ohio One Hundred Sixty Fourth Volunteer Infantry
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