CIA Reports To Torture or Not.

[swampdragon]

Neither am I and yeah I get that the OneJay feud thing is tiring, for me as well. I just have issue letting people slide when it comes to accountability and it seems like OneJay has a pad full of free passes in here. But like I said, he wins. I'm done trying to edify him.

by the way - I concur - OneJay never answers a question no matter how direct it is - and is also under the delusion that his non-answers are both clever and legit

[onejayhawk]

by the way - I concur - OneJay never answers a question no matter how direct it is - and is also under the delusion that his non-answers are both clever and legit

To the contrary.

Let's get back to the topic at hand.

Do you think torture is EVER justified?

A question instead of telling me what I think. It's progress.

The answer is yes. It is possible to conceive of an occasion where torture is justified.

J

If we could not agree on that much, there was nothing left to discuss.

J

[In the Corn]

I get it, you don't like what I say or how I say it. I am the WORST and constantly display POOR TASTE. Well that's my cross to bear and I'll tote it, but at least I stand behind my beliefs even if I don't always express them in the manner you and others think is most appropriate.
.

This rhetoric is the same as a racist, homophobe, sexist, etc. Just sayin'.

And no, I do not agree that torture is something we should be undertaking in any manner.

[nots]

I am a dick at times and I own that. And I agree that Special Olympians rock and that's its somewhat insulting to compare them to OneJay. As to spending a day with those who have challenged either physically, mentally or both--I'd wager I have spent MORE time with those who are challenged than anyone here who isn't a special ed teacher or has a special needs child. I'll PM you with the details, but I really don't think that was your reason for posting here. You see I find it somewhat telling that your FIRST post in this thread is not about the subject at hand, our county's torture of others and the morality and consequence of it. It's also not to urge OneJay to back up his earlier statements or explain his position regarding the same subject, nor to acknowledge his incessant dodging of a direct question. It is to, and I can't believe it surprises me, to once again chide me for my behavior as you did in your last post to me in a similar situation 2 years ago.

I get it, you don't like what I say or how I say it. I am the WORST and constantly display POOR TASTE. Well that's my cross to bear and I'll tote it, but at least I stand behind my beliefs even if I don't always express them in the manner you and others think is most appropriate.


So now that we have gotten that out of the way feel free to contribute your thoughts on the topic I'm sure they'd be interesting.

Next time you're spending all that time with all those challenged people, drop a 'looks like the GOP national convention in here' joke on them. I ll bet they will find that hilarious and appreciate your 'tell it like it is' attitude about your beliefs.
As for your tired battle with OJH--I really have no interest in it. I can't figure out what he's trying to say half the time and I find you to be obnoxious, at least as far as I know you thru your writings. I do try and think about what he is trying to say but it's just difficult at times.
As for this current thread: well, I wouldn't have posted in it at all if it weren't for you slurring Special needs folks again ( I actually let the blue line one slide). But since you asked: I don't think much intel was gathered from torture. I will go a step further and say I'm not in favor of us killing lots of innocent folks with drones either, though I guess we do get some bad guys by doing that. I'm also not in favor of our new policy of being able to track and kill uS citizens we label as enemy combatants. In my mind 14 years of US isolationism would have been better than the last 14 years of what we've had. But mostly I feel obligated to defend Special Needs folks who have their challenges used as a punch line by the insensitive, especially when the insensitive would light themselves on fire in outrage if someone else made a disparaging comment about a minority or ethnic group.

[swampdragon]

This rhetoric is the same as a racist, homophobe, sexist, etc. Just sayin'.

And no, I do not agree that torture is something we should be undertaking in any manner.

ITC _ Is that what you are saying? - there are too many do nots

[swampdragon]

we could throw in - do you support the death penalty? if we really want to have fun arguing

[In the Corn]

we could throw in - do you support the death penalty? if we really want to have fun arguing

I do not believe we should be torturing people, and I am against the death penalty. Hope that clarifies my position.

[swampdragon]

I do not believe we should be torturing people, and I am against the death penalty. Hope that clarifies my position.

straightforward answer and I agree on both aspects

[johnnya24]

we could throw in - do you support the death penalty? if we really want to have fun arguing

Death penalty is super easy for me ... stats definitely show that for every 100 people executed, at least 4 will almost certainly be innocent of the crime they were convicted. Therefore the state in allowing the death penalty is condemning a known amount of innocent people to death. That is indirect murder IMO. No state should be implementing laws that will commit innocents to death.

There is no such thing as collateral damage of acceptable loses when it comes to the death penalty. It's bad enough that a percentage of innocent people will have to spend considerable parts of their life in jail. But at least they have the chance of justice being done if they are still alive. No system is perfect, and the larger the country, the less perfect it will be.

The only way I would accept the death penalty for the most heinous of crimes (which most people accept deserve the ultimate punishment) is if the system was foolproof. The system can never be foolproof, therefore I can never support the practice, even if I firmly believe that some people most certainly deserve it.

[GwynnInTheHall]

Next time you're spending all that time with all those challenged people, drop a 'looks like the GOP national convention in here' joke on them. I ll bet they will find that hilarious and appreciate your 'tell it like it is' attitude about your beliefs.
As for your tired battle with OJH--I really have no interest in it. I can't figure out what he's trying to say half the time and I find you to be obnoxious, at least as far as I know you thru your writings. I do try and think about what he is trying to say but it's just difficult at times.
As for this current thread: well, I wouldn't have posted in it at all if it weren't for you slurring Special needs folks again ( I actually let the blue line one slide). But since you asked: I don't think much intel was gathered from torture. I will go a step further and say I'm not in favor of us killing lots of innocent folks with drones either, though I guess we do get some bad guys by doing that. I'm also not in favor of our new policy of being able to track and kill uS citizens we label as enemy combatants. In my mind 14 years of US isolationism would have been better than the last 14 years of what we've had. But mostly I feel obligated to defend Special Needs folks who have their challenges used as a punch line by the insensitive, especially when the insensitive would light themselves on fire in outrage if someone else made a disparaging comment about a minority or ethnic group.

I'm sure they'd laugh not quite understanding the joke, and though I'm sure some of their caretakers might think I was being insensitive they'd find it funny because most of those \i've been introduced to lean left in their politics. But again, you're right I can be a bit insensitive at times, somewhat misogynistic as well and arrogant because I'm not a perfect man. I work on these things, but I doubt I'll ever get it completely right. Of course you would find me obnoxious my beliefs mostly contradict yours and I shout them from the top of the mountain in self righteous fervor.

Thanks for taking the time to add your thoughts to the thread and though you might think i'm the worst, I would think those who stuff food up and prisoners ass are slightly worse than I if you get my drift.

BTW did you know that the name of state programs to aid those with special needs, challenges and the like is called....MHMR or the centers for Mental Health and Mental Retardation? I always wondered about them using the word retarded in an official capacity when I was spending my time after school for months with some of these guys, it did strike me as odd, but even with that experience I still use the Special Olympics line as a joke. Guess I'm just fucked up.

Again, thanks for responding and save up your vitriolic responses for my future posts since I'm sure to be annoying you further down the road.

[GwynnInTheHall]

This rhetoric is the same as a racist, homophobe, sexist, etc. Just sayin'.

Another guy I haven't heard from since he jumped to OneJays defense........welcome back and thanks for your comments on the subject at hand.

as for my rhetoric, I usually save it for the bars when I'm feeling really froggie....jes sayin.

[nullnor]

I killed a rabbit once that got caught by a cat because I thought it had spinal damage cause it was so scared when it tried to run away it flopped around. that was 20 years ago but I think of it when I see a rabbit. how I took it's life away. how big it was because it probably had survived for a while. or maybe it was pregnant. how it was more white than grey, like maybe the cat got someone's pet. how it tried to run once humans showed up. how it thought we would help it get away from the cat or hurt it.

sure I've done a lot of douchebag things in my life but I never realized im incapable of physically hurting someone until I got older. and only to defend someone that was in physical immediate danger.

I could never fight in a war. im not anti-war I think. but I know it's not what I can do. poachers killing elephants needs to be stopped. they capture the baby and make it call the herd then mow them down. and as they kneel incapacitated, they hack off their faces. so if I was a trained killer that's where I would use my skills afterwards. to try to stop the poaching.

and if there are multiple worlds and multiple universes, do my actions influence my doppelganger. maybe if im a dick in this universe i'll make myself be one in other ones. i'd like to know why the guy that invented the theory ate and drank himself to death after going on to invent third world war nuclear scenarios.

[In the Corn]

Another guy I haven't heard from since he jumped to OneJays defense........welcome back and thanks for your comments on the subject at hand.

as for my rhetoric, I usually save it for the bars when I'm feeling really froggie....jes sayin.

GITH, your comments about OneJay's wife were totally uncalled for, and I am not the only one who called you. You were roundly jumped on by people of all stripes here.

I'm glad your back as I appreciate your input and perspective, however your tone is what causes you to lose credibility.

[GwynnInTheHall]

GITH, your comments about OneJay's wife were totally uncalled for, and I am not the only one who called you. You were roundly jumped on by people of all stripes here.

I'm glad your back as I appreciate your input and perspective, however your tone is what causes you to lose credibility.

Like I've said, if we were all in a room having that exact conversation it would have been one guy busting another guys balls, period. Again, my sense of humor is not shared by everyone and for the record I received as many PMs saying it was a total overreaction as I did admonishments and the ultimate reason I left was not the incident, nor the subsequent fallout. I also have said I am never going to be as eloquent as Bfly or Johnny, but if my tone causes you to miss the message then you have to ask yourself, did you really want to hear what I was trying to say in the first place. As for my credibility, I play pretend baseball year after year, how much credibility can I possess?

[Pogues]

Goodie...now we're reliving the past.