Michael Brown & Ferguson, MO

[james33]

A couple thoughts-

1) I don't buy the "hey a grand jury heard the evidence" argument. The prosecutor sure seemed biased to me...in addition to Collette's list, the prosecutor's brother is a cop, and his dad was a cop killed in the line of duty. His sympathies are obvious. If the main guy on the team that is supposed to force a trial isn't committed, the outcome wasn't a surprise.

2) I wish that a different police brutality/shooting became the national cause instead of this one. Michael Brown had just robbed a store earlier that day. He didn't deserve to get shot, but the fact that he committed a crime, an aggressive one at that if you've seen him with the store clerk, makes him less sympathetic to the average person observing this from afar.

[Judge Jude]

Interesting. Why is this rare? Wouldn't most defendants want to testify at a grand jury to make their indictment less likely? Or maybe because defense attorneys are afraid at what they'll say?

I think that's a lot of it, yes.

It seems as if, fair or not, the prosecutor doesn't think the officer should be indicted. But he has to go the grand jury route for practical reasons, so he takes an unusual path - which benefits the officer. Then he figures that with all the evidence out there, people eventually will see that there's no way to convict this guy short of a jury nullification - which he might fear.

If all that is true, that's an "end justifies the means" issue, which is troubling. But it's a difficult spot to be in, assuming it's true that there is no way, under the law, to legitimately convict the guy. If the grand jury process was different and he was indicted, that sucks IF he is not guilty under the law. And if it goes to a jury, even a mostly African-American one, a "not guilty" verdict still isn't going to change a lot of minds - and that wouldn't have even happened yet, I assume.

And yes, this is hardly the ideal case to turn into a national cause - I imagine that happened because of the mostly or fully discredited canard of "the poor innocent who was minding his own business had his hands up while he was running away and the cop kept shooting him in the back."

I'd still like to see a) how rock-solid the '150 feet' part is, b) what do law enforcement officials generally see as a legitimate distance to where a charging (assuming) young angry huge criminal creates no real choice except to shoot. and also if it's practical to have protocols such as shooting in the leg etc.

[Pogues]

Having not followed the case very closely, I'm just using what I've read here and elsewhere since the grand jury announcement.

I'm falling on the "bullshit" side of the fence. This grand jury sounds a lot like a trial...but a shitty trial at that. It has all the appearance of protecting an "officer of the law".

[Moonlight J]

Lets not forget that Officer Wilson was not asked to give a statement on the day this happened. He did not have to give a statement until a month after the incident, giving him plenty of time to concoct, errrr, prepare, his side of the story. An unchallenged side of the story at that.

[Moonlight J]

No, it isn't--not in the least. Sorry for you and the rest of the outraged that want to make this in another cause.

I'm very disappointed that you are taking this angle.

[Moonlight J]

The other thing that I can't get out of my head -- if Wilson thought Brown had his own gun, why in the hell would Brown be reaching for Wilson's gun in the car? Why not just go to his pants and take out his own gun if he wanted to shoot Wilson? Nobody who has a gun tries to take another person's gun in a battle.

[nots]

I'm very disappointed that you are taking this angle.

As am I with you.

[nots]

Lets not forget that Officer Wilson was not asked to give a statement on the day this happened. He did not have to give a statement until a month after the incident, giving him plenty of time to concoct, errrr, prepare, his side of the story. An unchallenged side of the story at that.

Concoct huh?
I imagine the 'witnesses' to the incident know a thing or two about concocting a story. Feel free to gloss right over that.

[nots]

The other thing that I can't get out of my head -- if Wilson thought Brown had his own gun, why in the hell would Brown be reaching for Wilson's gun in the car? Why not just go to his pants and take out his own gun if he wanted to shoot Wilson? Nobody who has a gun tries to take another person's gun in a battle.

If he had taken his gun and shot and killed Officer Wilson, I wonder what your level of outrage would be.
I wonder if you would have made a snide comment about "America".

[Moonlight J]

Concoct huh?
I imagine the 'witnesses' to the incident know a thing or two about concocting a story. Feel free to gloss right over that.

And that's why you get 40+ witnesses and you challenge the statements. If you read through the transcripts, you see that happening. Meanwhile, Wilson gets a round of batting practice softballs without out any cross examination or even pushback from the prosecutor. Why? Does an officer with Wilson's track record (see previous work history) really have that level of credibility?

Please list the reasons why it is acceptable for someone involved in the incident to not have to give a report for over a month after the incident. I'll hang up and listen.

[Moonlight J]

If he had taken his gun and shot and killed Officer Wilson, I wonder what your level of outrage would be.
I wonder if you would have made a snide comment about "America".

Oh, I love cop killers just as much as the other guy. I really love the one that shot and killed my uncle's best friend and partner on the force in my hometown as a kid.

[Moonlight J]

I'm very disappointed that you are taking this angle.

Questioning over acceptance? I'm sorry I value life and justice a little more than you apparently do. Graham vs Connor needs to have some limits and shouldn't excuse excessive uses of force such as killing an unarmed man from 50 yards away.

[nots]

And that's why you get 40+ witnesses and you challenge the statements. If you read through the transcripts, you see that happening. Meanwhile, Wilson gets a round of batting practice softballs without out any cross examination or even pushback from the prosecutor. Why? Does an officer with Wilson's track record (see previous work history) really have that level of credibility?

Please list the reasons why it is acceptable for someone involved in the incident to not have to give a report for over a month after the incident. I'll hang up and listen.

Those witnesses statements collapsed as soon as they were asked to repeat them.
You lost this one champ, 12-0. I think Mumia Abu Jamal is still looking for some help though.

[nots]

Questioning over acceptance? I'm sorry I value life and justice a little more than you apparently do. Graham vs Connor needs to have some limits and shouldn't excuse excessive uses of force such as killing an unarmed man from 50 yards away.

Just not the lives of law enforcement.

[Moonlight J]

Those witnesses statements collapsed as soon as they were asked to repeat them.
You lost this one champ, 12-0. I think Mumia Abu Jamal is still looking for some help though.

Keep tap dancing on graves, whitey