Russian Invasion of Ukraine

[GwynnInTheHall]

Now that we've seen Russians take to the streets in protest and heard stories of low morale among Russian troops, what better way to drive that morale lower than by a concerted worldwide effort? Ban all Russian teams from international sporting events, including soccer. Companies should close every Russian location they have, even temporarily. Cut off all trade to Russia of any type of consumer good. Every major airline should cease all flights to Russia.

A few analysts have said no matter how it plays out militarily, this will end badly for Putin. He's completely underestimated the world mood for 1960s-style colonialism.

Short of Military action, I think these are great ideas--Hit em as hard as you can on the world stage---Formula One just cancelled their race in Russia scheduled for September--more of this as well please.

[umjewman]

why are you encouraging this?

Two reasons: 1) Johnny Dickshot is pretty much making me laugh every time I see it. And 2) Your seeming opposition has just supplied me with this second reason.

[ironfist]

If the US hadn't pushed for Ukraine to join NATO, Putin wouldn't have been given the green light to invade. So we should accept that we bluffed, and we got taken.

Nonsense. Ukraine and Georgia wanted to be in NATO for the very reason we are seeing today. It's why they signed the Budapest agreement when they gave up their nukes, which supposed obliged the US, UK, and Russia to respect their territorial integrity. Ukraine was never going to join NATO. It's an excuse and one of Putin's talking points to justify this action. These countries aren't being pushed into NATO, they are running, pleading for help from their abusive ex.

[Teenwolf]

Nonsense. Ukraine and Georgia wanted to be in NATO for the very reason we are seeing today. It's why they signed the Budapest agreement when they gave up their nukes, which supposed obliged the US, UK, and Russia to respect their territorial integrity. Ukraine was never going to join NATO. It's an excuse and one of Putin's talking points to justify this action. These countries aren't being pushed into NATO, they are running, pleading for help from their abusive ex.

My assertion was that we gave Putin his talking points (or justification) by crossing his self imposed red line.

[Bene Futuis]

Sounds like Biden has asked Congress to authorize $6.4 billion for Ukraine (presumably without the condition that they make up dirt on a Republican).

[GwynnInTheHall]

Here's a thought..why don't we aquiesse everytime a totalitarian dictator tells us what we should or should not do, that way they have NO justification (valid or not) to use when they go ahead and do what they want anyway!!

Fuckin' Brilliant!

[Bene Futuis]

Turns out the Ukranian leader who Trump tried to blackmail is quite a badass. When asked if he wanted to be airlifted out of danger, Zelenskiy responded, "I need ammunition, not a ride."

Fuck yeah. The whole world, with the exception of Russia and the American political right wing, is with you!

[Sour Masher]

Turns out the Ukranian leader who Trump tried to blackmail is quite a badass. When asked if he wanted to be airlifted out of danger, Zelenskiy responded, "I need ammunition, not a ride."

Fuck yeah. The whole world, with the exception of Russia and the American political right wing, is with you!

His whole political career is fascinating. He was an actor who you can see on the Netflix show Servant of the People. He plays a history teacher turned reluctant President. He then turned that acting gig into becoming the real President. I've watched the first couple of episodes. It is a good show that takes on the concept of Russian oligarchs running the Ukraine and an outsider disrupting the power dynamic.

[revo]

Poland and Sweden both have refused to play Russia in the World Cup qualifiers, and they both expect FIFA to make a statement soon.

Good, this is how you freeze them out. Keep it going.

[Sour Masher]

Poland and Sweden both have refused to play Russia in the World Cup qualifiers, and they both expect FIFA to make a statement soon.

Good, this is how you freeze them out. Keep it going.

Despite state controlled media and heavy internal spin, it is heartening to see some Russians understand what their country is doing is wrong and having the courage to speak out about it. I'm afraid that won't be enough to stop what has already happened, and the plans already in place by Putin for Ukraine. But maybe it will give pause for future plans and further acts of aggression, realizing further acts could mean internal strife and not just international sanctions. Putin will not only be villainized internationally, but I hope he will have an ever-growing sense that his vision of Russia is not shared by many of his people, and not only the history books of the rest of the world, but the ones written by future Russians may mark him down for who he really is, and not who he wants Russia to remember him as.

Then again, such men seldom realize how history will remember them, convinced that the means they used to get to the end will be forgotten once everyone accepts the rightness of the end. And I fear Putin really believes if he can take back Ukraine, or at least expand and solidify the Russian sphere of influence to the former USSR borders, he will be celebrated by all of Russia well past his death. It is possible he is not wrong, sadly, but it is good to see the internal protests. I hope they continue, but the risk is Putin will silence them. Unlike Trump, who could only dream about taking journalists and dissidents in the night and making them disappear, Putin has the unchecked power to continue to do that.

[The Feral Slasher]

Despite state controlled media and heavy internal spin, it is heartening to see some Russians understand what their country is doing is wrong and having the courage to speak out about it. I'm afraid that won't be enough to stop what has already happened, and the plans already in place by Putin for Ukraine. But maybe it will give pause for future plans and further acts of aggression, realizing further acts could mean internal strife and not just international sanctions. Putin will not only be villainized internationally, but I hope he will have an ever-growing sense that his vision of Russia is not shared by many of his people, and not only the history books of the rest of the world, but the ones written by future Russians may mark him down for who he really is, and not who he wants Russia to remember him as.

Then again, such men seldom realize how history will remember them, convinced that the means they used to get to the end will be forgotten once everyone accepts the rightness of the end. And I fear Putin really believes if he can take back Ukraine, or at least expand and solidify the Russian sphere of influence to the former USSR borders, he will be celebrated by all of Russia well past his death. It is possible he is not wrong, sadly, but it is good to see the internal protests. I hope they continue, but the risk is Putin will silence them. Unlike Trump, who could only dream about taking journalists and dissidents in the night and making them disappear, Putin has the unchecked power to continue to do that.

I have an incredible amount of respect for Russian anti-war protesters.

[TranaGreg]

Read an interesting piece this morning on how this is setting the precedent for the next 20-30 years. No doubt China is watching closely what the west's response is relative to Taiwan; obviously Putin already has plans beyond Ukraine; and there will likely be others (Korea?). At some point, and it may be sooner than we think, the west will need to do more than sanctions if we want any kind of world stability.

[Teenwolf]

I thought this UN speech from the Kenya ambassador was outstanding..

My hope is that this damages the unwavering support for the US military industrial complex by lifting the veil. The US has nothing to stand on, they support 73% of the world's dictatorships, they create and support coups, they support genocides and hunger crises and use barbaric practices, torture, drones that kill 20x as many human casualties as targets, all after starting wars on false pretenses (WMDs sure sound like the same excuse as NATO expansion), etc. We need a giant mirror in the west. I hope this invasion provides the perspective we need.

[Gregg]

Despite state controlled media and heavy internal spin, it is heartening to see some Russians understand what their country is doing is wrong and having the courage to speak out about it. I'm afraid that won't be enough to stop what has already happened, and the plans already in place by Putin for Ukraine. But maybe it will give pause for future plans and further acts of aggression, realizing further acts could mean internal strife and not just international sanctions. Putin will not only be villainized internationally, but I hope he will have an ever-growing sense that his vision of Russia is not shared by many of his people, and not only the history books of the rest of the world, but the ones written by future Russians may mark him down for who he really is, and not who he wants Russia to remember him as.

Then again, such men seldom realize how history will remember them, convinced that the means they used to get to the end will be forgotten once everyone accepts the rightness of the end. And I fear Putin really believes if he can take back Ukraine, or at least expand and solidify the Russian sphere of influence to the former USSR borders, he will be celebrated by all of Russia well past his death. It is possible he is not wrong, sadly, but it is good to see the internal protests. I hope they continue, but the risk is Putin will silence them. Unlike Trump, who could only dream about taking journalists and dissidents in the night and making them disappear, Putin has the unchecked power to continue to do that.

Maybe it is time that the Russian People stand arm in arm with the Ukranians and overturn Putin. Maybe the world will help with getting President Zelenskyy the weapons and supplies he needs.

[revo]

Poland and Sweden both have refused to play Russia in the World Cup qualifiers, and they both expect FIFA to make a statement soon.

Good, this is how you freeze them out. Keep it going.

Germany, Italy & France have now banned any flight from Russia that is not humanitarian in nature from their airports.

BP just announced it is unloading its 20% stake in Russian oil company Rosneft.