What's the right World Islam policy/strategy?

[Fresno Bob]

you've never played the OF in Candlestick.

floating hot dog wrappers don't whisper, they flutter!

[chancellor]

Anti-US protests are spreading all over the place due to this movie. I am so incredibly sick of all brands religious extremists.

Extremists? Those protesting are pretty much the norm in most of those countries, not extremists.

[GwynnInTheHall]

Extremists? Those protesting are pretty much the norm in most of those countries, not extremists.

would you say the OWS gang exemplifies the whole of America?

[nots]

would you say the OWS gang exemplifies the whole of America?

Only 99%

[chancellor]

Absolutely not true. I was just in Egypt, remember. Painting with such a broad brush makes for convenient argument for the Roto Rooter types, but the real truth is much murkier and more complicated.

We'll agree to disagree here. I have close friends in Indonesia, and they've been advised to get out now by the small handful of locals still talking to them.

Now, let's be clear - I'm not saying every Muslim is out on the streets protesting. But it's a far, far larger segment of the population doing so, with encouragement in many cases from clerics from "traditional" Islamic sects (Sunni, Shia), and not from the recognized "radical" sects (Wah'habi, Alawite). This is no Westboro Baptist group, or Haredim Jews. These are tens and tens of thousands of ordinary, everyday Muslims.

[chancellor]

would you say the OWS gang exemplifies the whole of America?

Not even remotely close. They don't even exemplify much of the Left of the Democratic Party, much less the center-left. Plus, despite their bogus claim to represent the 99%, their numbers were tiny compared to the many involved in protests in Arab and other majority Muslim populated countries.

[GwynnInTheHall]

Not even remotely close. They don't even exemplify much of the Left of the Democratic Party, much less the center-left. Plus, despite their bogus claim to represent the 99%, their numbers were tiny compared to the many involved in protests in Arab and other majority Muslim populated countries.

yet you can claim that what we see on TV represents the majority of Muslims in the countries we are seeing protests because you "have a friend" I think--you really have no ****ing Idea if they do or not and like so many others quick to label something you're opposed to or have no understanding of have taken the easy way out in trying to support your argument.

NO the majority of Muslims are NOT like those protesting against the US, because if they were--the Billions of Muslims around the would have wiped our smug asses off the map by now.

[DMT]

From the last couple pages of responses I'm not sure what was being argued, but having been to both Indonesia and Egypt I will say that most of the people I encountered were very friendly in general but also very critical of the US Government and particularly Bush. So on the one hand I agree with ElD & GITH I think, but at the same time there is no way I would feel completely comfortable visiting Egypt right now. If you guys would, then you're either grandstanding or you have bigger cojones than I. As for Indonesia, I only visited Bali and would have no problem being there right now, as it is the only non-Muslim island in Indonesia. Plus my wife looks like a local so we'd have no problems. Jordan would probably be iffy too, although Petra was one of, if not the, coolest places I've ever been.

Have we discussed the pro-USA rallies that happened in Benghazi after the incident? That was very encouraging IMO and definitely lends support to the argument that these protests/attacks are coming from a very small minority who in no way are representative of Muslims in general.

[GwynnInTheHall]

From the last couple pages of responses I'm not sure what was being argued, but having been to both Indonesia and Egypt I will say that most of the people I encountered were very friendly in general but also very critical of the US Government and particularly Bush. So on the one hand I agree with ElD & GITH I think, but at the same time there is no way I would feel completely comfortable visiting Egypt right now. If you guys would, then you're either grandstanding or you have bigger cojones than I. As for Indonesia, I only visited Bali and would have no problem being there right now, as it is the only non-Muslim island in Indonesia. Plus my wife looks like a local so we'd have no problems. Jordan would probably be iffy too, although Petra was one of, if not the, coolest places I've ever been.

Have we discussed the pro-USA rallies that happened in Benghazi after the incident? That was very encouraging IMO and definitely lends support to the argument that these protests/attacks are coming from a very small minority who in no way are representative of Muslims in general.

as someone who speaks Arabic fluently i'd feel completely at ease going to Egypt, maybe not so much Libya but I believe the person makes the situation and if you're not a flaming American nationalist douche bag--you get a lot farther in other countries.

FYI I celebrated my 50th last year in Tijuana, without a passport and only my good friend of 30 years to "protect" me. Guess what- I had a blast as always because I don't act like an Ugly American when i'm abroad. Oh and I'm a pretty cool dude in person so folks seem to give me the benefit of the doubt like when I came back into the US with nothing more than a Nevada DL.

Good people make a far greater impression than ****ty media. At least to those that matter.

[chancellor]

yet you can claim that what we see on TV represents the majority of Muslims in the countries we are seeing protests because you "have a friend" I think--you really have no ****ing Idea if they do or not and like so many others quick to label something you're opposed to or have no understanding of have taken the easy way out in trying to support your argument.

Uh, no. Let's review the bidding. Tunisia - riots with thousands, including nearly breaking into the US Embassy. All non-essential personnel are going to be evacuated.

Libya - Major riots in two large cities, Benghazi consulate overrun, number of people killed.

Egypt - Riots adding up to thousands in multiple cities, embassy wall scaled one day, mere molotov cocktail bombings and stonings other days. Protests lasted multiple days.

Add in protests numbering in the thousands (ranging from a couple thousand to almost ten) in Jordan, Indonesia, Bangladesh, Iran, Iraq, Sudan, and Pakistan.

Al Jazeera polls shows the protesters have overwhelming popular support, further, Flynt Leverett of Al Jazeera writes that this support is widespread and due to US policy as much as cultural issues. But beyond a doubt, regardless of reason, the protests have widespread popular support.

NO the majority of Muslims are NOT like those protesting against the US, because if they were--the Billions of Muslims around the would have wiped our smug asses off the map by now.

LOL! The billions of Muslims couldn't even wipe Israel off the map; heck, they lost ground to them every battle they were in, despite vast advantages in manpower and material. Pakistan has had its head handed to it the limited number of times it tried to mess with India. The Afghans are about the only Muslims that can even remotely hold their head up high vis a vis their fighting ability, the remainder got their butts kicked while producing breathtaking acts of cowardice.

[GwynnInTheHall]

Uh, no. Let's review the bidding. Tunisia - riots with thousands, including nearly breaking into the US Embassy. All non-essential personnel are going to be evacuated.

Libya - Major riots in two large cities, Benghazi consulate overrun, number of people killed.

Egypt - Riots adding up to thousands in multiple cities, embassy wall scaled one day, mere molotov cocktail bombings and stonings other days. Protests lasted multiple days.

Add in protests numbering in the thousands (ranging from a couple thousand to almost ten) in Jordan, Indonesia, Bangladesh, Iran, Iraq, Sudan, and Pakistan.

Al Jazeera polls shows the protesters have overwhelming popular support, further, Flynt Leverett of Al Jazeera writes that this support is widespread and due to US policy as much as cultural issues. But beyond a doubt, regardless of reason, the protests have widespread popular support.



LOL! The billions of Muslims couldn't even wipe Israel off the map; heck, they lost ground to them every battle they were in, despite vast advantages in manpower and material. Pakistan has had its head handed to it the limited number of times it tried to mess with India. The Afghans are about the only Muslims that can even remotely hold their head up high vis a vis their fighting ability, the remainder got their butts kicked while producing breathtaking acts of cowardice.

You're completely off base trying to paint Islam and all Muslims as protester/terrorists.and the reason "billions' of Muslims haven't wiped Israel off the map is because NOT ALL OF THEM WANT ISRAEL DESTROYED. Now if ALL Muslims were as you'd like us to believe they were--then yeah--Jerusalem would be "Kingdom of heaven" yet again. But believe what you will--You really do seem to lose your way about this time every 4 years.

[dslaw]

Al Jazeera polls

I don't think helps your argument very much. We can't even agree on polls taken in the US by the various polling companies. Unless I am off the mark I would think Al Jazeera polls would be something like "How much do you hate the US - very much hate, or just hate?" with headlines saying "75% of the people hate the US very much."

[Bob Kohm]

So, any reaction to this from some of our woefully uninformed, "all Muslims are in the streets hating us" posters?

http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/21/world/africa/libya-benghazi-counter-protest/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

Seems not all protests in Islamic nations-- or Muslims-- fit the stereotypes so wrongly expressed by some in this thread.

[GwynnInTheHall]

no ****in duh

[Mithrandir]

...and now a Pakistani government official is offering a bounty on the film's director. $100k to anyone who kills him.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/23/world/...html?hpt=hp_t1

Didn't the guy think for just a second that maybe, just maybe, making the film would put his life in peril? Idiot.