Originally posted by johnnya24
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Champagne for breakfast and a Sherman in my hand !
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The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
George Orwell, 1984
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Originally posted by The Feral Slasher View PostAbout half of Americans get flu shots every year. I think Ken's point was that getting boosters for Covid should not be a big deal if many already do it for a much lower threat.
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Originally posted by umjewman View PostYeah, but if a ton of people jumped off a bridge, would you do it too?---------------------------------------------
Champagne for breakfast and a Sherman in my hand !
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The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
George Orwell, 1984
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Originally posted by Kevin Seitzer View PostI'm pretty sure this is false. A brief survey of the literature suggests it is complete bunk, and that vaccines create IgA in the saliva, which is a good proxy for IgA in the mucous membranes of the respiratory and digestive tracts.On December 6th, 2021, we searched PubMed website for published peer-reviewed research articles written in English using the search terms “BNT162b2 vaccine”, “salivary antibodies” and “oral mucosal immunity”. Several studies have shown that BNT162b2 COVID-19 mRNA vaccine induces neutralizing antibody responses in healthy adults and one single dose promotes a similar or even higher immune response in individuals with prior SARS-CoV-2 infection than in infection naïve individuals receiving two-dose immunization. However, we identified only three studies investigating the activation of a specific oral mucosal immunity after mRNA vaccination. They reported that within 1-2 weeks after the second dose, vaccinated subjects had S-protein IgG antibodies in their saliva, while IgA were detected in a substantial proportion, but results were inconsistent. Assessing the mucosal immune response might provide further information about the vaccine efficacy in protecting the host from the infection, since the mucosal sites represent the first route of entry of the virus.Our findings indicate that intramuscular administration of the mRNA BNT162b2 vaccine promotes a strong systemic immune response but only weakly induces the production of salivary IgG and in less extent salivary IgA. The low IgA antibodies titre in saliva suggests a lack of stimulation of secretory IgA and therefore an ineffective activation of mucosal immunity by systemic vaccination. Distinct routes of immunization, such as the nasal or oral, might represent a new challenge in the booster doses of vaccine to increase oral or respiratory mucosal immunity against SARS-CoV-2, as at these sites the first contact with the virus takes place. This should be desirable to block primary virus infection more efficiently and to obtain sterilizing immunity.
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this was the study I found. The Mucosal and Serological Immune Responses to the Novel Coronavirus (SARS-CoV-2) Vaccines https://www.frontiersin.org/articles...21.744887/fullOur study reveals that both Comirnaty and CoronaVac induce plasma SARS-CoV-2 S1-specific IgA, IgG, and NAb. However, Comirnaty, but not CoronaVac, was also able to induce S1-specific IgA and IgG in the nasal mucosa.
It is commonly believed that intramuscular vaccines do not induce mucosal immunity effectively.
Conclusion
Despite being a vaccine administered via the intramuscular route, Comirnaty, and likely other mRNA vaccines, induces S1-specific IgA and IgG in the nasal mucosa of vaccine recipients as early as 14 days after the first dose. The NELF neutralizing effect infers protection from SARS-CoV-2 infection at the upper respiratory epithelium when the level of NAb is sufficiently high. This extra arm of protection at the mucosa, on top of the well-characterized serological antibody development, might further reduce the chance of SARS-CoV-2 infection, in addition to its effectiveness in protecting the recipient from hospitalization and severe disease. Though the response may be transient, it is possible that a more rapid elevation in antibodies may occur within the mucosa when the subject is exposed to live viruses, thus conferring protection from infection even before the virus breaches the mucosa. CoronaVac vaccine induces an IgG-dominant response in the plasma of recipients with neutralizing effect but does not produce any mucosal antibody response. The additional information relating to mucosal response and the direct comparison between two vaccine technologies provides critical insights into how to best utilize these different vaccines from a public health point of view.
I don't know
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The finding that the BNT162b2 vaccination poorly induces salivary IgA suggests that these Ab were not mucosal-evoked sIgA but originated most likely from serum, by transudation from the blood circulation. Thus, in the examined population, the low mucosal immunity detected is mostly represented by salivary IgG rather than IgA. Consistently, after the boosting dose of vaccine only 18% of SN (seronegative or never infected) showed neutralizing activity in saliva.
On the contrary, 60% of virus-exposed subjects before vaccination (here designed as seropositive or SP) developed NAb in their saliva after vaccine administration. Indeed, in this group the increase of salivary IgA was more pronounced, and the serum/saliva IgA ratio was ten-fold higher than in unexposed individuals. This observation suggests that in subjects with previous SARS-CoV-2 natural infection the presence of some “mucosal” immunity mirrors the activation of B cells that can switch toward the production of IgA after vaccination, as also suggested by recent reports.
this stuff is fascinating. if it wasn't so grim. anyways, I stand by my statement this is the reason it's non-sterilizing. although, sometimes it is sterilizing and sometimes it isn't. this unexpected result raises the question of where the lipid nanoparticles are travelling.
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Originally posted by johnnya24 View PostDepends what you mean by "effective, lasting immunity" ... I think that any kind of prior infection will bolster your immunity against future strains, as will vaccines. And combined, that is about the best shot we have.
I do not want to catch Delta. But we will have to live with Covid, just like we live with Influenza etc, and I imagine at some point in the future I will be exposed to a Delta-like strain that will attack my lungs more vigorously that Omicron.
I would like my immune system to be best equipped to deal with that eventuality. Hybrid-immunity seems like the best we can muster right now. And all the data suggests Omicron is everyone's best bet to achieve hybrid-immunity without risking the more severe side effects of the other strains.
So I guess no, I don't believe it will give "effective, lasting immunity", but it's the best we've got.
We have no more plays really. As much as I am pro-vaccine - I don't fancy the prospect of getting boosted every 6 months of the rest of my life - and that certainly won't fly with the wider population.---------------------------------------------
Champagne for breakfast and a Sherman in my hand !
---------------------------------------------
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
George Orwell, 1984
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If only everyone could/would just get vaccinated. quite amazing how much vaccines help. Nully, take a look and let me know what you think. Please consider getting a vaccination.
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Champagne for breakfast and a Sherman in my hand !
---------------------------------------------
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
George Orwell, 1984
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Originally posted by The Feral Slasher View PostIf only everyone could/would just get vaccinated. quite amazing how much vaccines help. Nully, take a look and let me know what you think. Please consider getting a vaccination.
https://twitter.com/PaulMainwood/sta...28897259712513---------------------------------------------
Champagne for breakfast and a Sherman in my hand !
---------------------------------------------
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
George Orwell, 1984
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Originally posted by nullnor View Postadditionally ppl could say, but nullnor, injecting mRNA lipid nanoparticles and not completely knowing where all of them may end up is a good thing because it can unexpectedly induce a mucosal and innate immune response. and I would agree.---------------------------------------------
Champagne for breakfast and a Sherman in my hand !
---------------------------------------------
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
George Orwell, 1984
Comment
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Originally posted by The Feral Slasher View PostIf only everyone could/would just get vaccinated. quite amazing how much vaccines help. Nully, take a look and let me know what you think. Please consider getting a vaccination.
https://twitter.com/PaulMainwood/sta...28897259712513
ETA: Although, that chart goes back to May-that includes numbers from before getting boosted was even possible.
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Originally posted by nullnor View Postadditionally ppl could say, but nullnor, injecting mRNA lipid nanoparticles and not completely knowing where all of them may end up is a good thing because it can unexpectedly induce a mucosal and innate immune response. and I would agree.---------------------------------------------
Champagne for breakfast and a Sherman in my hand !
---------------------------------------------
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
George Orwell, 1984
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